The BF Time Warp 001: The Sirens of Time

[Anthony Williams]

It's the first week of the Big Finish Time Warp, and we will be discussing the very first Big Finish adventure, The Sirens of Time!

Gallifrey is in a state of crisis, facing destruction at the hands of an overwhelming enemy. And the Doctor is involved in three different incarnations - each caught up in a deadly adventure, scattered across time and space. The web of time is threatened - and someone wants the Doctor dead.

The three incarnations of the Doctor must join together to set time back on the right track - but in doing so, will they unleash a still greater threat?

Originally released July 1999

Tell us your thoughts about this classic Big Finish adventure! What did you think at the time, as we got our first new slice of acted-Doctor Who in three years!?

And then, give it a rating out of five. Every so often, we will average out the scores and do a chart of the most popular

The poll will remain open for two weeks, even though we will be officially moving on to Phantasmagoria after a week.

[MacNimon]

I haven't listened to any of these for ages! Funnily enough I had been thinking of giving some of these earlier ones a listen again although I haven't got round to it yet...I remember rushing out to buy these early stories as soon as they went on sale, with high expectations...

I've only listened to Sirens a couple of times, the last time probably five or six years ago (at least!) So going by memory, it was the McCoy segment first, wasn't it? That was the one which I personally found to be the most disappointing. I can't remember the details but I just remember a feeling of disappointment as the plot plodded along. The first new Doctor Who for years and this was it?! What a disappointment! Admittedly the fact that I wasn't the biggest McCoy fan in the world could have been a factor in my disappointment.

Things picked up for me with Davison's segment in the submarine, although I think it was pretty weak method of writing his companions out. This is still the most memorable and enjoyable of the solo segments for me, although I remember being surprised at just how good Colin Baker's performance was in his segment, even at this early stage in the range, but I can't remember many details of his episode. The final episode was what we'd all been waiting for though, wasn't it? And it didn't disappoint. Again the details are pretty sketchy, but I don't think I was very impressed by the plot but I loved it for the banter between the Doctors.

Overall, while in many respects this was a disappointing release to kick off the series it's easy to understand why they chose this from a marketing point of view. Everyone was still finding their feet at this point, and it wasn't perfect by any means but it still showed plenty of promise for future releases.
A patchy but mostly enjoyable start. I'd rate it about a 6/10.

[Lissa]

I listened to it for the first time in years over the weekend. It's a lot better than I remembered it being. The three single-episode Doctor adventures are still a bit thin but they're not meant to be fully developed stories - just three distinct things that happen, each of which gives an introduction after ten or fifteen years to one of the Doctors.

The last episode brings them all together and it is a bit fanwanky - Gallifrey has been invaded, there's a magical time beast in captivity - but it does explain the real meaning of episodes 1 to 3 and there is a pretty good twist near the end.

It's a first attempt and sounds quite basic compared with later stories but it has pace, the three leads sound like they've never been away and it has grown on me after all these years. I was ready to vote neither good nor bad but now I'm giving it a good because it is.

[Llordllama]

Still remember listening to this and going "Whoo whoo whoo" (like a siren) everytime the Sirens of Time got a mention. Possibly the only pleasure I got out of listening to the thing.

[Si Hunt]

I remember it was magical to hear the three leads again, but the actress playing "Ellie" (a very Big Finish name) was a bit rubbish and the plot was very amateur and felt like it had been written by a fan.

Si.

[Lissa]

You should give it another chance - it's a grower. This series is a good excuse to go back and listen to these early stories.

[Antony Cox]

This is one of the few BFs I have a copy of so thought I would share my two-peneth!

When I first heard The Sirens of Time, it was a good few years after the series had started and I don’t think I knew that it was the first story they’d made. Thus my appreciation of it was as though it was just one in a series of stories which had already been released. Having listened to it again a couple of times after I’d learnt that it was the first one, I think it showed it’s true colours a bit more.

It’s fairly obvious that it was a bit of a fanwanky celebration and an opportunity to get as many Doctors together in one story, but for all that I quite enjoy it. I think the three individual segments work quite well, and each Doctor falls comfortably back into their respective roles, notably Sylv who is far more of an ‘actor’ here than I remember him being in his TV seasons.

Contrary to Si Hunt, I actually thought the actress playing the various forms of ‘Ellie’ was rather good, in fact it took me quite a while to realise that the three characters were linked due to the different approaches and voices of each role. The other various supporting cast are very good, particularly the chap who plays Sancroff. Actually I’ve just looked up the cast on-line and never realised that Ruthley was played by Maggie Stables!

I have to follow popular opinion in that the last section of the story and the general synopsis is a bit fanwanky, but it’s good fun when all the Doctors meet up and gives baker and McCoy their own chance to trade personality quips a la The Five Doctors. The absence of TV series companions is a shame but I guess it would have been very difficult to have given them all worthwhile roles within the plot.

As I’m not a BF aficionado I can’t really compare it to the rest of the series and thus must rate it in isolation. So overall I’ve given it the vote of ‘Good’.

[Anthony Williams]

I didn't hear this on release (indeed, the first I heard of Big Finish was around the time that The Shadow of the Scourge was released, and the first one I heard was Storm Warning), but I did hear it a few years later. However, I haven't heard it since, and I'm re-listening now as I type...

So, I'll be posting my thoughts, part-by-part, since this story breaks down so nicely into its composite episodes.

Part One

Well, that was a disappointment. The idea of "The Doctor meets war criminal who is about to be executed" is hardly the most inspired of plot-lines, and this doesn't do it particularly well, either. The fundamental problem with this is that McCoy sounds bored, which isn't something I recall from my favourite 7th Doc BFs (Excelis Decays, Project: Lazarus and Master, to name a few). Maggie Stables as Ruthley is absolutely hilarious, for all the wrong reasons. I get that this is very early days, but if I'd heard this in July 1999, I'd have listened to this first episode and probably given up.

Part Two

This a little more like it! Davison actually sounds like he's relishing playing the Fifth Doctor again, and things begin to get exciting again. However, I feel that this could have been directed slightly better - a story set even partially on a U-Boat should, IMO, give off a sense of claustrophobia and fear. This, however, does not. Still, at least there are no dodgy performances this time round, and the notion that the Time Lords are trying to kill off the Doctor is an interesting one....

More later!

Ant x

[Anthony Williams]

Part Three

At last, onto Colin's first BF adventure, and the beginning of the rehabilitation of the Sixth Doctor. It's amazing how Big Finish really turned the character of the poorly scripted Sixth Doctor around. Where on TV, he had been bad tempered and sometimes even violent, in Big Finish he's compassionate and well, rather likable! The story itself isn't up to much, but it does set things up well for the final part...

Part Four

Well, it's nice that everything draws together well, and it's wonderful to hear three Doctors who never met on screen interacting with each other. At last, McCoy appears to have gained some enthusiasm, whilst both Davison and Colin continue with their excellent performances. The plot finally begins to work out, and whilst the revelations concerning Elenya/Helen/Ellie/Lyena are not really a surprise, this works a lot better. However, I can't help but feel that the Gallifrey-invaded plot would be done a lot better later on in The Apocalypse Element, although I haven't listened to that one in quite a while.

Overview

I can't help but feel that this was a somewhat lackluster start to the Big Finish range. Fortunately, having listened through before, I know that it gets much better later on. The plot isn't up to much, and I certainly agree with Kenny in that the first episode was the least successful. This certainly isn't a bad attempt, but it's plain that it's very early days.

Overall, I voted "neither good nor bad".

Ant x

[Larry]

3/5 for a first time effort it was pretty good.

[stuartdg]

Episode 1 is largely rubbish,the best thing is Maggie Stables as Ruthley,her cackling is unintentionally hilarious.Episode 2 is a bit meh,Davison is great tho.Episode 3 is the best Colin returns to form,straight away and it feels like old school who.Episode 4 is overlong and full of technobabble.

The biggest problem is that each episode feels like a part one of a story,with everything crammed into episode 4

[SiHart]

I liked the fact they gave each Doctor a chance to shine on their own before teaming up at the end. That was a good, practical approach to the Multi-Doctor story and a good way to launch the range, giving them each a chance to shine before they team up.

However it did lead to a rather disjointed story. As Stu says, it's a story with three part 1s and one part 4 which tries desperately to tie up everything. It doesn't quite work and feels top heavy storywise.
The respective part ones are interesting. Sylvester gets a Who-ey setting not seen in his era- a jungle, but the epsiode falls flat for lots of reasons. Davison's I remember really liking. The submarine estting is a great one for an episode on audio as it's got a distinctive set of background noises and so is quite evocative. Colin's one is good too, if only to start showing the mellower and more likeable version of Sixie.
The banter between the three of them in the final episode is rather good and enjoyable to listen to, but I don't think the plot did them all justice.

Better things were to come, but this is a reasonable start and as a one off event to launch the range you can't blame them for trying this approach.

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

Doing a multi-Doctor story to start with made me a bit uneasy - a bit reckless, like the kids getting the keys to the sweetshop and stuffing themselves sick in the first ten minutes.

The whole thing is unfortunately fannish. What would a ten year old do if you asked him to write a Doctor Who story? It would have all the Doctors in, some robots, then - ooh, bored of that let's have it on a submarine! No, a spaceship! And a big monster and Gallifrey and EVERYTHING! And there is absolutely no depth, it's just a load of silly things heaped in for the hell of it.

Am I being unfair? Perhaps slightly. The sound design is fine; I guess the dialogue is capable; but there's no depth or subtelty or characterisation here at all. It's Doctor Who salivatingly produced by a group of capable, thirty-something ten year olds.

Si.

[SiHart]

I think the multi-Doctor angle was purely a marketing ploy. It got the range lots of publicity at the time and I suspect it's still one of their best sellers.

Si xx

[MacNimon]

BBC Books used the exact same ploy a couple of years earlier when launching their Eigth Doctor range of novels, didn't they? I've no doubt Big Finish reckoned that if it was good enough for the BBC then it was good enough for them.

[Simon R]

It's a shame they didn't wait until the 35th Anniversary which wasn't that far off at the time but I suppose you can't blame them for wanting to go big with the first release and they probably didn't know they'd still be going in 2003 at that point!

I remember very little about this story apart from it not really engaging me and wanting to like it more. I had it on cass-ette which I ordered in especially at WH Smiths. I think I went for tape because it was cheaper but went CD for all other stories after this.

I think the banter betwixt the Doctor's was good once they met up but all that Kirgon wonder, Knights of Alesha was a load of old cobblers.

[Jon Masters]

I voted 3/5. The multi-Doctor idea is a good one to launch the range, and works quite well when the Doctors get together - Colin and Sylv in particular, with Peter almost like an exasperated parent. The three minisodes are fine in themselves, although they don't really reach a climax as just sort of stop (the only one that's a bit odd is Peter's where he deliberately leaves Ellie in the hands of the Germans).

Plotwise the overall story is OK but leaning towards f-w'n# - the double twist in particular not really making great sense (why does following the Sirens twice do you over rather than just once ?), but it does just about tie together.

What I did notice, compared to more modern BFs, helped to knock my opinion right back down

• some of the performances are quite arch, almost running to am-dram (though not always helped by some of the scenery-chewing dialogue)
• the music and effects are far too loud and over-balance the vocals - several times my car lurched across the road as I desperately lunged for the volume control
• there's a sense of overegging, with a full toybox of audio effects and in particular voice treatments. The scene between the Drudgers and Biomechanical assassins just drags on and on, and some of the voices are barely understandable. This is a trap that PS audios never fell into, and I'll be complaining about it again in some future stories.

Overall a good start but luckily it wasn't the first BF audio I ever listened to, otherwise I might have gone 'Meh'

[Nyder]

Well I'll finally be dipping my toe into BF land in a few days when "Sirens Of Time" plonks through my letter box. Thought I'd be systematic and start from the beginning - will post a review here when I'm done! Won't take me long to catch up... only a few years maybe....

As I've not read any reviews yet (I've jumped straight to the bottom of this thread), I'd like some views of what the quality is like on these early BF productions. Do they get better with time, do they get worse - or is it just hit & miss (and personal taste!) with each episode? BF Virgin welcomes advice from all you BF Slags! :-)

[brandynigma]

Well I'll finally be dipping my toe into BF land in a few days when "Sirens Of Time" plonks through my letter box. Thought I'd be systematic and start from the beginning - will post a review here when I'm done! Won't take me long to catch up... only a few years maybe....

As I've not read any reviews yet (I've jumped straight to the bottom of this thread), I'd like some views of what the quality is like on these early BF productions. Do they get better with time, do they get worse - or is it just hit & miss (and personal taste!) with each episode? BF Virgin welcomes advice from all you BF Slags! :-)

In terms of story quality, there seems to be a dip from the late 60s to early 100s in the range (about the point where I'm up to). In terms of production quality, they're pretty damn polished right from the start, thanks to the experience Gary Russell, Nick Briggs, Nigel Fairs et. al. gained working on the Audio Visuals plays.

The mixing on Colditz is awful, however.

[Anthony Williams]

As I've not read any reviews yet (I've jumped straight to the bottom of this thread), I'd like some views of what the quality is like on these early BF productions. Do they get better with time, do they get worse - or is it just hit & miss (and personal taste!) with each episode? BF Virgin welcomes advice from all you BF Slags! :-)

In my opinion, the first twelve-or-so can be a little hit-and-miss, but after that, there's a fairly consistent level of quality that lasts until at least Master (the 49th release, I haven't really heard much past that in the main range...)

[Si Hunt]

A potted history of Big Finish?

They start of solidly, if a little overly "fannish", starting with a pretty dreadful multi-Doctor/Gallifrey story and fulfilling "fan desires" like Colin + The Brig, Daleks in Jungle etc. These are largely enjoyable, although for every clunker like "Red Dawn" and "The Fearmonger" there is a classic like "Spectre of Lanyon Moore" or "Fires of Vulcan". "The Holy Terror" took everyone by surprise by being their first cast-iron, superb classic.

Things get good when McGann joins, although his first series if shoddy through having to rush-prepare scripts. After that though, we get the Classic Era. "Project: Twilight", "The One Doctor", "Chimes of Midnight", "Jubillee", "Doctor Who and the Pirates". It's not faultless, but most of this is great stuff. The 40th Anniversary arrived and quality was sky high - "Omega", "Master" and "Davros" are all pretty brilliant, the latter two are superb. "Zagreus" is a great, overindulgent, outrageous pudding of a story. It's either awful or terrific, depending on your leaning.

The quality begins to wane a bit after that, and although the next McGann season is good, the Divergant Universe strand was not working out, and they swiftly axed it. From #66 we start to get some really crap and forgettable stories like "The Game", "Singularity", "The Settling", "Red".

From around #100 onward it's all change. 25 minute episodes, Nick Briggs takes over and, it felt like, Big Finish itself became a minority interest within Doctor Who fans. Old Monsters galore come back, 3 part + 1 part story releases are introduced, and there is generally a middling-to-good quality (although the Key 2 Time stories are awful). From around #120 we get stories released in trilogies, with a mixture of really great ones and not so great ones.

I think in summary, before #100 the quality is much less consistent, although that means more really classic stories and more really awful ones, after #100 when Nick Briggs is in charge, the quality is more consistent but that sort of means more average as well.

Generally.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

Good advice above, Si's summary of BF is pretty much spot on!

To get started on BF, I'd recommend the following:
Place and order for Spare Parts (Best Cyberman story), The Marian Conspiracy (introduces Evelyn, their best companion), Jubilee (great Dalek story), Storm Warning (Get a flavour of McGann), The Fearmonger (Jacqueline Pearce!), Omega, Davros, Master, plus any of the Unbound adventures except for the rubbish one with Arrabella Weir.

Also worth a punt are the McGanns: Scherzo, The Natural History of Fear, The Last, the Cyber-trilogy: The Harvest / The Reaping / The Gathering and the 4-story releases, Circular Time and 100.

That's already £100 spent at least! But at least they'll be largely good.

[Nyder]

Hooray! CD finally plonked through my letterbox this morning. Will give it a listen this weekend.

[Si Hunt]

You can tell they churn them out. I've heard plays before where the opening music fades down, then the background of the first scene (birdssong or whatever) suddenly starts, without even fading in. I can't believe anyone would let that slip through the net!

Si.

[Nyder]

Finally finished this tonight - I have to say I really enjoyed it. Possibly because this is my first BF and so have nothing else to compare it to, but yep .. I liked. Of course it was a thrill to hear all 3 Doctors together. Peter Davison's performance was confident and assured and Sixie also put in fine performance. Sylvester McCoy was .... well .... he was Sylvester McCoy. After all these years I still don't quite "get" his Doctor. Maybe I've just got bad memories of watching his first two TV Who's - I'm sure I'll warm to him in future BF productions. In fairness I did think he had the weakest of the 3 stories in "Sirens", but I did enjoy his badinage with Colin B! I think this story could have stretched to another episode as Ep 4 was quite rushed and I had trouble keeping up with the narrative (mind you, I'd just had my wisdom tooth extracted so maybe I wasn't in the best frame of mind to concentrate )

So to sum up - BF1 was highly enjoyable. And if by all accounts the stories get better, then I'm in for some treats! Give me 5 years and I think I should be all up to date Hell I'm not waiting that long for FDA - Nerva should be dropping through by letter box any day now!