The Visit of The Pope

[Rob McCow]

Absolutely non-controversial and utterly benign, the forthcoming visit to the UK by the leader of the Catholic Church is set to be a quiet event.

The Pope and his advisors are clearly looking forward to coming to the country:

Pope adviser calls the UK a 'Third World country'

The Vatican said the cardinal was pulling out of the visit solely on health grounds

One of the Pope's senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a "Third World country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism".

Cardinal Walter Kasper, 77, made the remarks in a German magazine interview.

The Vatican said the cardinal had not intended "any kind of slight", and was referring to the UK's multicultural society.

It added that he had simply pulled out of the Pope's visit due to illness.

The German-born cardinal was quoted as saying to the country's Focus magazine that "when you land at Heathrow you think at times you have landed in a Third World country".

Again, it's an uncontroversial visit. If there's one thing that everyone can get behind, it's the Pope!

Pope's state visit criticised in luminaries' letter

More than 50 public figures have added their names to a letter in the Guardian newspaper saying the Pope should not be given the "honour" of a UK state visit.

Authors Terry Pratchett and Philip Pullman and actor Stephen Fry are among those critical of the Vatican record on birth control, gay rights and abortion.

David Cameron has said the Pope's visit will be a "very special four days".
A Catholic spokesman said the prime minister's comments were an "excellent response to this open letter".

Other signatories to the letter in the Guardian include: Professor Richard Dawkins, Ken Follett, AC Grayling, Stewart Lee, Claire Rayner, Lord Foulkes, Lord Hughes, Professor Steve Jones, Sir Jonathan Miller, Lord Taverne, Peter Tatchell and Baroness Turner.

And of course, it'll be a pious and reverential time for all.

When the Pope stretches out his arms to the masses gathered in parks in Glasgow, Birmingham and London this weekend, the rock star parallels will be exaggerated by the appearance of the adoring crowds.

Some will be wearing the official papal visit T-shirt (£18) while holding aloft an electronic flashing candle (£3).

Others may sport, against the autumn chill, an official baseball cap (£15) bearing the slogan of the newly beatified Cardinal Newman: "Heart Speaks Unto Heart".

In their pockets they may, in prayer, thumb an official papal visit rosary or jangle an official key-ring picturing a smiling Benedict XVI, with mitre and papal cross, lest they be locked out post-pilgrimage.

As activity around the Pope's UK visit intensifies, so the faithful have been flocking to the altar of consumerism, with its mixture of official and unofficial souvenirs manufactured to mark the event.

At the west London warehouse of IVS, the official merchandise supplier, project manager Matt Hassall is overseeing the 75-80 different lines of memorabilia for the visit.

Pilgrims can record the Pope's words with a... Benedictaphone

He won't comment on sales figures but says some profits will be diverted to the church to fund the Pope's visit. The Catholic Church is expected to make a contribution of between £9m and £10m for a visit which could also cost the UK taxpayer £10-£12m, excluding policing.

So, who could possibly object to the Pope visiting the UK? Do you think the Pope should visit this country, which is ostensibly Protestant but in practice atheist/multicultural?

[MacNimon]

You didn't even mention the travel chaos which will occur. Many of Edinburghs roads will be closed tomorrow morning, followed by a rolling series of road closures as he travels from Edinburgh to Glasgow in the afternoon. Not to mention the fact that a substantial section of the M77 (the main route from Ayrshire to Glasgow) will be closed for 24 hours to be used a a car/coach park.

There will be plenty of happy motorists around tomorrow!

[Rob McCow]

Yeah, we've had the traffic warnings for London too. There must be a way to transport the man without causing all this grief! I suppose he'll be out meeting and greeting as many people as possible.

The whole scope of this visit seems different from anything we've had before, even when George W Bush came over.

[Philipnet]

Some will be wearing the official papal visit T-shirt (£18) while holding aloft an electronic flashing candle (£3).

Others may sport, against the autumn chill, an official baseball cap (£15) bearing the slogan of the newly beatified Cardinal Newman: "Heart Speaks Unto Heart".

In their pockets they may, in prayer, thumb an official papal visit rosary or jangle an official key-ring picturing a smiling Benedict XVI, with mitre and papal cross, lest they be locked out post-pilgrimage.

As activity around the Pope's UK visit intensifies, so the faithful have been flocking to the altar of consumerism, with its mixture of official and unofficial souvenirs manufactured to mark the event.

Pilgrims can record the Pope's words with a... Benedictaphone

That reminds me of my English and History classes at school; where we we taught that back in the times of Middle English there would be street peddlers selling all sorts of nicknacks that were guaranteed to absolve your sins. And people bought them because the teachings of the Church were so strong.

Nothing changes!

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm not sure he should be getting a state visit - after all, the head of state is Church of England, and there is something of a history of disagreements between CofE and the Catholics isn't there...

Personally I think there are too many 'hardline' views coming from the Vatican now, and this Pope in particular I guess, and I'd rather he wasn't coming at all. As a country, I believe we're in general pro-abortion, pro-contraception, we don't consider homosexuality to be any kind of issue... clearly the Pope has quite different views, so why is the country encouraging his visit? If he was some kind of wisecracking comedian who held those views he'd probably be sent home at immigration wouldn't he?

[Jeff]

After seeing this thread I noticed a couple of stories from American news agencies detailing the lukewarm to cold reception the Pope is getting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100915/...u_pope_britain

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2010091...08599201919800

[Lissa]

One of the Pope's senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a "Third World country" marked by "a new and aggressive atheism".

The Vatican said the cardinal had not intended "any kind of slight", and was referring to the UK's multicultural society.

So the Catholic Church clarifies what might've been taken as an offensive remark by explaining Britain is a third world country because of all black people. We're basically just Africa without the weather nowadays.

[SiHart]

Perhaps the lukewarm reaction is due to his visit not actually meaning very much to your average Britain. Catholicism isn't the dominant Christian denomination here for a start, the whole Irish problem stems from the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism and in general the UK is more secular than at any time in its history.

Lets face it this Pope doesn't have the common touch or appeal that Pope John Paul II had which made his visit in the early 80s so memorable or something that non-Catholics got excited about.

We're told that the country is having to make tremendous cuts, and yet we're footing the bill for this visit that no-one seems to actually want.

Si xx

[Jeff]

I bet you could have gotten D'Angelo Dinero for cheaper.

[Lissa]

But he's yet to work a miracle and get anyone to buy a TNA pay per view.

[shada pavlova]

My sister's (Catholic) school is forcing everyone to watch the televised mass from London tomorrow.

That's also my first day off of the year.

[Perry Vale]

Oh, is this what this is all about, the Pope? I thought the head of Paypal was coming to visit England.....







I'll get me coat....

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Lets face it this Pope doesn't have the common touch or appeal that Pope John Paul II had which made his visit in the early 80s so memorable or something that non-Catholics got excited about.

I have to agree. As someone who is very anti-Catholic, I did have a grudging respect for Pope John Paul. I do feel with Pope Benedict it's back to business as usual ... bring on the crusades, holy war and terror!

Pretty much everything I've heard from this Pope I've found offensive.

[Martin Penny]

He's going to be around the corner from my house! I look forward to the thousands of pilgrims forming a line up my road...

[Stuart Wallis]

Pope's state visit criticised in luminaries' letter

More than 50 public figures have added their names to a letter in the Guardian newspaper saying the Pope should not be given the "honour" of a UK state visit.

Authors Terry Pratchett and Philip Pullman and actor Stephen Fry are among those critical of the Vatican record on birth control, gay rights and abortion.

David Cameron has said the Pope's visit will be a "very special four days".
A Catholic spokesman said the prime minister's comments were an "excellent response to this open letter".

Other signatories to the letter in the Guardian include: Professor Richard Dawkins, Ken Follett, AC Grayling, Stewart Lee, Claire Rayner, Lord Foulkes, Lord Hughes, Professor Steve Jones, Sir Jonathan Miller, Lord Taverne, Peter Tatchell and Baroness Turner.

Again, it's an uncontroversial visit. If there's one thing that everyone can get behind, it's the Pope!

With knives in their hands, Brutus.

In one respect, why not? it can be classed as a state visit, since he's technically a Head of State. But then, given the Catholic Church holds views that many people, myself included, feel are dodgy, would we allow Mugabe over as well? Okay, we're on safer ground with His Holiness, but I agree with Mike; he's starting to undo some of the progress his predecessor ws doing regards the public image of his religion.

[Rob McCow]

True, he's no General Pinochet.

Does anyone fancy trying to put the Pope under house arrest for being implicated in the Catholic Church abuse scandal? I don't think so.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Does anyone fancy trying to put the Pope under house arrest for being implicated in the Catholic Church abuse scandal? I don't think so.

Don't you mean "citizen's arrest"?

And you couldn't anyway cos of Papal Infalibility ... which means he's never done anything wrong in his life ... not even in the Hitler Youth.

[Larry]

When the Pope stretches out his arms to the masses gathered in parks in Glasgow, Birmingham and London this weekend, the rock star parallels will be exaggerated by the appearance of the adoring crowds.

Some will be wearing the official papal visit T-shirt (£18) while holding aloft an electronic flashing candle (£3).

Others may sport, against the autumn chill, an official baseball cap (£15) bearing the slogan of the newly beatified Cardinal Newman: "Heart Speaks Unto Heart".

In their pockets they may, in prayer, thumb an official papal visit rosary or jangle an official key-ring picturing a smiling Benedict XVI, with mitre and papal cross, lest they be locked out post-pilgrimage.

As activity around the Pope's UK visit intensifies, so the faithful have been flocking to the altar of consumerism, with its mixture of official and unofficial souvenirs manufactured to mark the event.

At the west London warehouse of IVS, the official merchandise supplier, project manager Matt Hassall is overseeing the 75-80 different lines of memorabilia for the visit.

Pilgrims can record the Pope's words with a... Benedictaphone

He won't comment on sales figures but says some profits will be diverted to the church to fund the Pope's visit. The Catholic Church is expected to make a contribution of between £9m and £10m for a visit which could also cost the UK taxpayer £10-£12m, excluding policing.

well just like with a Royal wedding the visit op the pope means the usual load of tacky merchandise hitting the shops I can understand some one buying a commemeretive plate - but a t-shirt.

I just have visions of a bunch of Del Trotter, like priests being sent out with a suit case and selling all this pope merchandise from he back of a three wheel van.

You can even buy a life sized cardboard cut out of the Pope - maybeit's just me but I would find it some what creepy to have a life sized cut out of any body standing in the corner of your living room.

[Jason Thompson]

he's never done anything wrong in his life ... not even in the Hitler Youth.

Well you can hardly blame him for being a member of a youth organisation set up in a country under military dictatorship in which membership was 'strongly encouraged' by the government, military and police. If you go down that road you might as well blame all Germans for being Nazis in the 1930s and early 40s. Choice was not high on the list of liberties the general population had at the time.

I agree, however, that his policies seem to be a backwards step from the previous Pope.

[Anthony Williams]

I agree, however, that his policies seem to be a backwards step from the previous Pope.

I don't actually see that much difference in the policies of Benedict XVI and John Paul II.

JP2 didn't believe in gender equality, abortion, contraception, ordination of female clergy. He maintained a strict stance against homosexuality and same-sex marriage. He presided over sexual abuse scandals, just as Benedict has. He made some outrageous claims about gender roles, and stated that there would be a "great harvest of faith" on the Indian subcontinent in the Third Christian Millennium. He was also responsible for recentralising power with the Vatican, and oversaw the use of charitable social programmes in the third world for the purposes of converting people to Catholicism.

Their views seem pretty similar to me. Nay, Benedict seems slightly MORE progressive than JP2.

Ant x

[Stuart Wallis]

I don't actually see that much difference in the policies of Benedict XI and John Paul II.

JP2 didn't believe in gender equality, abortion, contraception, ordination of female clergy.

Fair enough, and these are my main gripes with Catholicism, but that's mostly par for the course. (Not a defence of the Vatican or previous Pontiffs as a whole, you understand.)

He maintained a strict stance against homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

The old Pope did at least call for gay people not to be bullied on simply on the grounds of their sexuality.

He presided over sexual abuse scandals, just as Benedict has.

Granted. However, remember that the one that's most famous is the one that came to then-Cardinal Ratzinger's attention, which he then swept under the carpet.

He made some outrageous claims about gender roles, and stated that there would be a "great harvest of faith" on the Indian subcontinent in the Third Christian Millennium. He was also responsible for recentralising power with the Vatican, and oversaw the use of charitable social programmes in the third world for the purposes of converting people to Catholicism.

Again, fair comment, and again, par for the course for the Vatican. I've said it before elsewhere, the Catholic Church appears to be run on the grounds of a business as much of a religion. The raising of cash is one thing to keep churches open and priests and cardinals in employ, but not allowing contraception, seems to me to have the air of a damn fine way of keeping a high level of Catholics in the world; and the fire and damnation methods of keeping existing members in order... Looking back in history though, current methods of conversion are, if anything, a bloody sight more progressive than other Papal campaigns that I could mention. Inquisition, anyone? You didn't expect that, did you! At least the pope doesn't condone slavery anymore. (Well he doesn't appear to - and don't think I'm joking about the slavery!)

[Anthony Williams]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with Catholicism... there are FAR crazier denominations of Christianity out there...

I was just pointing out that people seem to be looking back on JP2 with rose-tinted glasses, when he wasn't THAT different from Benny16

Ant x

[Rob McCow]

http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/09/16/dailymailhate/



Proving popular, it's Stephen Fry! The Daily Mail is one of the few papers ranking the Pope as a 'goody' and Stephen Fry as a 'Baddie', so enjoy it while it lasts.

[Jeff]

You can even buy a life sized cardboard cut out of the Pope - maybeit's just me but I would find it some what creepy to have a life sized cut out of any body standing in the corner of your living room.

Catholics could put it in their bedrooms... how's that for contraception!

[Stuart Wallis]

Far better than three Hail Marys!

And sorry Ant, Catholicism's a touchy suject with me. Funny for an Irisman who isn't particularly orange either, but there you go.