University tuition fees - Bit of a disagreement in London

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Simply the amount of debt students seem to be levelled with now is just horrific. The knock on effect will be people leaving University and not being able to enter the housing market until much later.

When tuition fees were introduced about 10 years ago they were originally about £2000 - but we're running headlong into them increasing by 4.5 times. Whenever you have something going up so much you have to ask questions ...

[Dino]

Did anyone catch the "Milbank Riots" which they weren't riots in the true meaning, but you know what drama queens the media and Conservative party are!
I half agree with their protest and despite it being obvious the group was infiltrated, I'm glad Milbank had a few windows put through... even though all students are going to be paying through their arses for it for generations.
And half agree that "listening to the people" has been tarnished and upstaged.

[SiHart]

The protest was fine and justified, but I don't think the violence was. It hides the message they were trying to promote, as the TV coverage has shown since. there's been more focus on the "riot" aspect of it all, and the recations to that, than to the message of students standing up for something they believe is wrong.

Si xx

[Jason Thompson]

Indeed. Now it's just going to be looked on as immature kids throwing their toys out of the pram rather than a legitimate protest.

[SiHart]

Well for good or bad, students will now face a bill of up to £9000 a year for going to university, as the Government proposal has been voted in with a majority vote of just 21. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11954333

Si xx

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I have to admit I'm quite glad to see the protest on the screen - it's nice to see some layer of society not taking this kind of change too well.

[Milky Tears]

I'm disgusted!!


They need to send in the tanks!!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Sounds almost like the Poll Tax riots.

[Rob McCow]

From the Mail:

Observers said as few as half of the yesterday's crowd of protesters were students, with a rent-a-mob of anarchists and other thugs taking control.

Seeing the amount of aggro that seems to be directed against the students, this seems to have been buried away in the middle of the report. For all the thousands of peaceful protesters, it doesn't take many to ruin it all.

[Larry]

I'm disgusted!!


They need to send in the tanks!!

you have to give credit to the security service for showing such restraint - they are trained to shoot and kill anybody who tries to harm the prince or any member of the royal family - some thing they almost certainly would of done if these thugs had injured Charles or Camilla. one things for sure had that been the American pPresident's car that was attacked by a gang of masked thugs the C.I.A, would almost certainly shoot them regardless of it being on a London street having had 3 presidents assasinated and several others come close they no longer take any chances. But I think the security services, of quite a few other countries would of had no hesitation in shooting those thugs if they had attacked their head of states car.

[brandynigma]

Australia has had this for ages.

Degrees cost $5-7K a year (essentially three tiers: Humanities; Technical; Medical/Law), and then you start paying back at 4% of income once you his $36K a year (rising by 0.5% for each additional $5K a year, capped at 10%, I believe).

I've been trying to figure out then why one year at an English university could buy you a whole degree in Australia- and then I found out last night.

Student unions here are voluntary.

In Australia, they're compulsory (well, student unions prefer universal, but I prefer not to call a spade an earth relocation device). This means that EVERY student pays $250 a year or thereabouts to fund or subsidise student services within the university- hospitality, amenities, security, maintenance, etc. There were protests here when the government attempted to make this funding optional- students essentially protesting to pay for the 'necessary evil' of this security of services.

Perhaps, if English universities had this sort of thing, there wouldn't be a need for graduates to start their working life is £30K+ debt- although admittedly, a debt without interest or the immediate need to pay it back.

However, this move, coming in the same month as the announcement of slashed funding for A-level students, does rather smack of creating a barrier (even a psychological one) for poorer students.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

you have to give credit to the security service for showing such restraint - they are trained to shoot and kill anybody who tries to harm the prince or any member of the royal family

Thing is the bodyguard in the car would probably have only had a pistol. I remember an incident in Northern Ireland in 1989 where a Police car for some unknown reason had gone into a crowd at a funeral (it was for someone Michael Stone had killed at another funeral). The policeman there discharged their weapon, but it only really served to provoke the crowd further - with in the end the crowd getting their guns from them, and killing those inside the car with them.

[Larry]

The protest was fine and justified, but I don't think the violence was.
Si xx

no it wasn't but it was understandable people are very angry with all these cuts being made by the government to expect a student from an ordinary family to have to pay an increase of £5000 + in fees is just wrong. I's alright for Clegg and Cameron, to say what a great and fare idea this is but I bet they were never left thousands of pounds in debt after they left university or college. Just like with the disabled the students are an easy target to go after because despite all their talk they haven't got the guts to go after the real cheats and scroungers.

Thing is the bodyguard in the car would probably have only had a pistol. .

well apparantly from what one person said on the news the other day they were only seconds from pulling out their guns - god knows what might of happened if they had and just fired one warning shot.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I have to say I'm struggling to understand how increasing tuition fees is in any way helpful for making cuts. Surely almost everyone is going to be entitlesd to get loans to cover all these fees; loans which the government are going to have to pay them, which then go straight to the universities. So the government are going to be paying out loads MORE money because of these decisions. Money that they're not going to start getting back for years, and not get back in full for possibly decades, or maybe even never. In other words they're giving massive levels of credit with incredibly good repayment terms (compared to any other sort of loan).... but isn't this exactly the sort of thing that started all the trouble in the first place? Am I missing something?

[Larry]

I have to say I'm struggling to understand how increasing tuition fees is in any way helpful for making cuts. g?

I suppose asking the students to pay increased fees means these colleges and universities then don't have to ask the government for more money..

[Zbigniev Hamson]

But they are still getting money from the government, just it's filtered through students' bank accounts first.

Or is it that they will eventually get some of it repayed, whereas any they gave directly to universities would just be written off entirely?

[Rob McCow]

Get with the program - they're not trying to save money, they're just hammering the proletariat! [/Marx]

I'm wondering if they'll shift to a system where private industry will sponsor people to go to University. That would improve the debt situation while maitaining some level of fairness.