Should prisoners be allowed to vote?

[SiHart]

All over the news this morning was the proposal that prisoners should be allowed to vote. Apparently, according to the EU it is a violation of their human rights being denied the chance to vote in local and general elections.

But do you agree they should? What's your opinion on this controversial proposal?

Si xx

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I think it would depend on the crime.

I was earlier in the week all hardline about this "no- not at all". However an unrelated article about a man's work at Rimutuka Prison got me thinking. If you are trying to rehabilitate prisoners, trying to make them feel like they are part of society, then it does make sense they keep their vote. Not to do so almost is to say that even when released they have no say in society.

However the idea of some murderers / rapists being able to vote is absolutely repulsive. The only good thing is these people are in a minority, and them being able to vote isn't really going to derail democrazy.

[Captain Tancredi]

I have no strong opinion, but I think that the important thing to remember whenever Europe strikes down one of our laws or practices is that with the possible exceptions of Sweden and Malta, most of the countries in the EU have been occupied or subject to foreign invasion or totalitarian dictatorship within the last century. So they have experience of regimes which could arbitrarily drag people off the streets and make sure they never saw the light of day again if they wanted to.

What would concern me most would be at the level of local council elections where a prison could represent a block of a couple of thousand voters who could be swayed by violence and intimidation. In particular, the white prison population could well turn out to be a breeding ground for the BNP if we're not careful.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Yeah - that's an interesting point, there will of course be members of the EU where people will have criminal records just because under a Communist regime they were sent to prison for objecting to the Government.

[Dino]

I'm not so much worried about prisoners getting the vote, more concerned that seeing as there is a hardcore British scum factor who wouldn't mind prison "Free tele, free meals AND we get to vote! Hur! Hur!" to getting kicked out of their homes when the housing benefit cuts strike... and I'm more concerned about becoming a victim of them?
As for the BNP however,in the new Private Eye there's a story about how they are on the brink of insolvency. Estimated at £500,000.
They are blaming Commission for Equalities and Human Rights for forcing their party to change it's racist constitution... but it's more likely to be Nick Griffin nicking Marmite's "Love it or hate it" campaign which has cost it between £100,000 and £170,000.
So BNP bloc votes aren't going to keep me awake. The people who think prison is a safe option will!

[Lissa]

Ian makes a good point about prison populations - they are by their very nature concentrated in very specific places and could potentially affect the outcome at a local level.

I'm pretty much against it - it's fine to argue that losing the right to vote is a breach of human rights but one of those human rights is the right to liberty and we take that away from prisoners when we send them to prison. Increasingly things like an internet connection are deemed human rights and they too are denied to prisoners (or at least heavily restricted).

There doesn't seem any upside to this ruling and plenty of downsides in terms of corruption and public anger.

[Si Hunt]

No!

(a) The whole point of going to prison is, as Lissa said, to have your rights taken away!
and
(b) We vote because we deserve a say in how the country we live in is run. What's the point in giving people a say who can't live in that society anyway?

Si.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

This article is interesting ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11676456

Also, nearly all prisoners lose the right to vote in the UK whether they have been locked up for one day for a speeding offence or life for mass murder, which is a broad brush approach.

As the court's judgement put it, British law is "a blunt instrument".

It states: "It [UK law] stripped of their convention right to vote a significant category of people and it did so in a way which was indiscriminate.

"It applied automatically to convicted prisoners in prison, irrespective of the length of their sentence and irrespective of the nature or gravity of their offence and their individual circumstances.

"Such a general, automatic and indiscriminate restriction on a vitally important convention right had to be seen as falling outside any acceptable margin of appreciation."

Of course if you took away voting rights for all time from anyone who'd ever been in prison, then you'd also be denying voting rights from people like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luthor King etc.

I think what the EC is pushing for from all member states is that the right to vote is reviewed on a case by case basis.

On the flipside, if this does go ahead, it'll mean at the next election "The LiberalDemocrats promise to be soft on crime and the causes of crime" to win those votes ...

[Jason Thompson]

If you're convicted of a crime and sent to prison, why should you still be allowed to vote? I see the usual 'violation of their human rights' argument has been put forth, but does rather miss the point that those imprisoned have been so because they have already violated someone else's rights and are being punished for it. Rehabilitation to avoid re-offending is fine, but first and foremost prison is supposed to be a punishment and a deterrent.

[Draculasaurus]

I don't think it really matters.
If a society has enough prisoners to sway an election, that society has much bigger problems to worry about.

[MinaHarker]

Of course if you took away voting rights for all time from anyone who'd ever been in prison, then you'd also be denying voting rights from people like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luthor King etc.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

[Jason Thompson]

Indeed. The suggestion is not regarding former prisoners, just the ones who happen to be in prison at the time of an election.

The point is that if you have committed a crime and are in prison at the time of an election, you forfeit your right to vote. It doesn't matter if you're in for a long or a short stretch. By committing the crime and risking jail time you are effectively denying yourself the right to vote.

[Rob McCow]

I'm broadly against people who are in prison at the time of an election having the right to vote. However, is it different if they are doing community service or being tagged at home?

In any case, vast swathes of the electorate are apathetic and wouldn't vote anyway. Surely that must to extend to the prison population as well, possibly even more so. Perhaps it would be more of a punishment to force them to vote?

[Dirk Gently]

Perhaps it would be more of a punishment to force them to vote?

More of a punishment to make them sit through all the Party Political Broadcasts & Political interviews I'd have thought.

[Rob McCow]

It might make them more socially responsible, Tim!

The best way to resolve this would be to offer a free vote to the prisoners. If less than fifty per-cent vote in favour of having the right to vote, then they shouldn't have that right.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

The point is that if you have committed a crime and are in prison at the time of an election, you forfeit your right to vote.

Hmm - I get what you're saying.

But I guess what the EU is trying to do is get a watertight solution to prevent abuse of the kind you see in some dodgy "democracies".

Operation Watchdog is sprung in Bradford, holding potential terrorists according to the Prevention Of Terrorism Act. It just so happens to occur two days before an election, and holds half of Bradford.

The result? Bradford gets it's first Conservative MP for years ...

You get this kind of thing in some parts of the world.

[MinaHarker]

Hmm - I get what you're saying.

But I guess what the EU is trying to do is get a watertight solution to prevent abuse of the kind you see in some dodgy "democracies".

Operation Watchdog is sprung in Bradford, holding potential terrorists according to the Prevention Of Terrorism Act. It just so happens to occur two days before an election, and holds half of Bradford.

The result? Bradford gets it's first Conservative MP for years ...

You get this kind of thing in some parts of the world.

Wrong. They are not convicted prisoners, they are on remand and legally innocent. Prisoners on remand can vote.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Good luck getting to a polling station though

[Larry]

I'm pretty much against it - it's fine to argue that losing the right to vote is a breach of human rights but one of those human rights is the right to liberty and we take that away from prisoners when we send them to prison. .

agreed, this is another example of why so many people dislike the EU the whole point of being sent to prison is that the rights you enjoy are taken away from you. If we are forced to accept this ruling then we should do on our terms and rapists/pedeophiles and murderers should still be banned froim voting.


of course this then dose beg the question who do these prisoners vote for do they vote for the Mp who's constituancy the prison is in are we now going to see MP's on the prison campaign trail toi drum up votes.