Rate and Discuss: Logopolis

[SiHart]

It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for...

yes, we reach the final story of Season 18 today. Tegan Jovanka arrives, as does Nyssa as an on going companion, The new Master makes his mark and the Doctor is cut down to size.

But what do you think of the Fourth Doctor's swansong?

Si xx

[NeilM68]

A brilliant piece of TV whose atmosphere overcomes some of the ludicrous plot holes. The Watcher is an inspired idea.

[SiHart]

Hi Neil- welcome to PS!

I found the Watcher a really spooky idea when I was little. It was that image of him ermm watching everything from over the other side of the road that i found unsettling- and the lovely theme that accompanied his appearances too.

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

Logopolis is a bit of an iffy story which kind of meanders all over the place before arriving at the rather-fake looking world of mathematicians. None of which matters of course, because what's on the screen is pure brilliance from start to finish.

In many ways the story is not too different from the rest of the season, but there's that marvelous atmosphere of gloom and melancholy that pervades every scene. Tom radiates the emotions he feels at his fate, from anger to acceptance. It's one of his most electrifying performances.

The concepts involved in the story are mind-boggling. While they may not appeal to the Star Wars fans, the more technically minded members of the audience are bound to be enthralled by the way the Universe is held together by a single thread - (or cable?) and the Logopolitan's ability to create substance from pure maths.

Combine this with a heap of beautiful, tiny details and some borderline poetic dialogue and it's a story that's a winner every time. It is the end, and it's a moment that always lives up to a re-watching.

[SiHart]

There's a certain magic to Logopolis that belies its cheap and often flawed production. I don't quite know how they did it, whether it came from the script or from Tom Baker or what, but there's just a tremendous end-of-an-era atmosphere, often called funereal or doomy.

Tom gets it just right, giving the Doctor a sense of dread at his parting. It's quite odd the Doctor knowing he's end is due, but the Fourth Doctor goes with dignity. Contrast this with the end of the Tenth Doctor and his whining and whinging about the end coming. This is the far better way to do it I think.

Si xx

[Andrew Curnow]

It's one of very few stories where I regularly hum the incidental music. And it's also the story I quote the most, and the most often - I always park the car with a "3.2 metres, what a landing". "The future lies this way", "..is an expression", and of course the classic, "Indeed Monitor, indeed" are all part of my vocabulary.

For a (slightly) more cogent argument on why Logopolis has just got a '10' vote off me, you could try looking here.

[Stephen Morgan]

A brilliant piece of TV whose atmosphere overcomes some of the ludicrous plot holes. The Watcher is an inspired idea.

And no less inspired by the New Romantic style of the period either.

A Newbie on the boards I see Looking forward to his views on season 18 and contemporary music and TV around it.

Welcome Neil.

[Larry]

9/10 - Logopolas, was my first experience of seeing The Doctor regernerate and for me it's the best regeneration of the classic series I also think it is the best story since City of Death, and probably Tom's best performance since season 14 - it's also IMO the best performance from Anthony Ainley.

[Martin Curnow]

A 10 from me. Loved it from start to finish. Plenty of inside the TARDIS scenes, TB being superb and a quite masterly portrayal by AA before his character became a bit panto villain.

[MacNimon]

There's a certain magic to Logopolis that belies its cheap and often flawed production. I don't quite know how they did it, whether it came from the script or from Tom Baker or what, but there's just a tremendous end-of-an-era atmosphere, often called funereal or doomy.

Tom gets it just right, giving the Doctor a sense of dread at his parting. It's quite odd the Doctor knowing he's end is due, but the Fourth Doctor goes with dignity. Contrast this with the end of the Tenth Doctor and his whining and whinging about the end coming. This is the far better way to do it I think.

Si xx

I really can't add much to what you've said here, Si. Although I'd say that the flaws in the story are mostly down to the cheapness of it...the sets, the unconvincing shrunken bodies, etc. I'm still not a fan of the Master's "Citizens of the universe" speech, but it's not quite as bad as I seem to remember it. The main flaw in the writing is the Doctor's idea to flush out the TARDIS in the Thames...I mean, surely both the the Doctor and Adric would have been flushed out along with the Master's TARDIS? And the discovery that the Logopolitans were such an important race to the existence of the universe should have been a major surprise/shock to the Doctor, else why would he even go there knowing the Master is somewhere inside the TARDIS?

There is a great atmosphere about this story, especially in the first couple of episodes when the cloister bell is ringing and we have another TARDIS inside the TARDIS...I love how each time they enter another it gets darker and creepier...

And I agree, Tom's departure is done much more effectively than Tennant's. From the scene where he meets the Watcher and gets given 'a glimpse into the future' he knows the end isn't far away.

Overall, this story is much more effective when watched in context as part of a season rather than as a stand-alone story, as it is so easy to do these days. Despite its flaws its still a great story, rounding off a great season. 9/10.

[Si Hunt]

It does seem as if the Doctor and Adric will both drown if the TARDIS is materilised under water and the doors opened. But as the Doctor seemingly knows he will regenerate because of the watcher, perhaps he is simply playing with destiny; he knows he won't die, so he goes ahead and does it anyway to see what will happen.

I always wondered why they try and hold the doors closed though. Either they want the water to flood in or they don't, if they do, why hold the doors closed? Unless the "doors" the Doctor has opened is a door to another part of the TARDIS that the Master is in...

Si.

[Rob McCow]

I'm still not a fan of the Master's "Citizens of the universe" speech, but it's not quite as bad as I seem to remember it.

I always think of that speech when I'm standing on the station at Clapham Junction. "Citizens of the Universe, please attend carefully, the announcement I have is vital to the future safety of you all. Please keep your bags with you at all times. Any bags or loose articles of luggage will be removed and may be destroyed. Thank you for listening."

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

I always think of that speech when I'm standing on the station at Clapham Junction. "Citizens of the Universe, please attend carefully, the announcement I have is vital to the future safety of you all. Please keep your bags with you at all times. Any bags or loose articles of luggage will be removed and may be destroyed. Thank you for listening."

"thank you for listening"!!! - That would be the most polite South West Trains announcement I've ever heard!

[SiHart]

It's Peoples of the Universe! Not Citizens! Arghhh! Get it right!



Si xx

[Rob McCow]

Yeah. And it's 'Unattended items', not 'loose articles' too.

[SiHart]

30 years ago today, the 4th Doctor regenerated. Oh my!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnAubeOLBzY&feature=fvsr

Si xx

[Rob McCow]

Makes the 7 years he spent playing the Doctor seem like a fleeting moment!

[Andrew Curnow]

Are you saying Tom Baker came and went like a Summer Cloud.

Sorry, I'm stuck in Frontios mode, darned CHB...

[SiHart]

Not a word to the Time Lords!

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

This could officially be my first Who memory. I certainly remember being a bit of a know-all when Peter Davison's time came round, because I'd seen it all before...

Si.

[Martin Curnow]

It's one of very few stories where I regularly hum the incidental music. And it's also the story I quote the most, and the most often - I always park the car with a "3.2 metres, what a landing". "The future lies this way", "..is an expression", and of course the classic, "Indeed Monitor, indeed" are all part of my vocabulary.

For a (slightly) more cogent argument on why Logopolis has just got a '10' vote off me, you could try looking here.

Dangnabit it. Can't think of any of the incidental music. Excuse to put on the DVD later.

[Andrew Curnow]

What, can't remember the music?! What about the bit where it goes "doodeedoodeedoodeedoodeedoodeedoodeedoodeedeeeede e" or "deediddlediddledeedumdum, deedoodledoodledoodledumdah"?

[Awesome Wells]

Logopolis is almost my first Who memory. I saw it at the tail-end of the Five Faces Of Doctor Who season which preceded Castrovalva, but as I was only six or seven, my fledgling brain created a few false memories -- shots of Tardises within Tardises with views out onto fields and lay-bys that are similar to the real images but not identical -- that I can still see to this day. It took the purchase of the VHS of the story (my first ever Who vid) a decade later to disavow me of my misguided beliefs.

It's a shame, then, given its exalted place in my Doctor Who history, that Logopolis is a story of two halves: one good, the other mostly awful. The first two parts, with all the great locations, the spooky Tardis interiors and Tom's hirsute melancholia, are excellent; the second two, with the crappy CSO, the dull Logopolitana and Anthony Ainley's constant cackling, are very poor. The Fourth Doctor's final end -- dangling from a prop with some dreadfully selected images of the past superimposed on his face, and then lying on an unrealistic grassy knoll, surrounded by Lulu and the Young Generation -- is a cardboard tombstone that's even less worthy than the cut-out image of the Master made from the same material. As an exit, Tom deserved a lot better -- and it's rather sad that the exit of the longest-serving Doctor is only beaten in the cackoid stakes by "Colin Baker" falling off an exercise bike. Everyone else has a fairly glorious departure; the Fourth Doctor did not.

For a long time, I defended -- nay, praised -- Logopolis, mostly on the strength of my nostalgic love for the opening episodes. Now, the poverty of quality in the latter two outweigh all other consideration; and it's all the worse that it starts so well, only to crumble halfway through. Maybe this is a metaphor for the entropy-based storyline; maybe it's just that I hate the awful pink studio sets for Logopolis and the hideous CSO that doubles for the Pharos project exterior. Either way, I'm nailing my scarf to the mast and rewriting my own opinion: Logopolis is crap.

[Dirk Gently]

This is my most traumatic memory of Doctor Who. I have an over-riding memory of the death of the Doctor as he fell to his death; the fact that some bloke from All Creatures Great & Small took over was little consolation. And the change in the scheduling did nothing to help as I couldn't see Tuesday showings.

Logopolis is a really good story for me, albeit flawed. I just switch off the mathematical part of my mind & it's fine.
Although the magical nature of Aunt Vanessa's car is just too much for my critical eye. It leaves the house with a very battered drivers side door & wing but it arrives in the lay by with just a single dent in the wing & a better looking paint job.

In short, this is a good Doctor Who story & gets 9/10 from me.

[Martin Curnow]

Was just going to post when I saw that I already had!

A 10 from me. Loved it from start to finish. Plenty of inside the TARDIS scenes, TB being superb and a quite masterly portrayal by AA before his character became a bit panto villain.

Wise words, mate!