The Sun Makers: Everyone runs from this DVD

[Si Hunt]

Nice try to shifty blame Mr McCow but the claim about there being no aliens in the story was yours, and with respect is complete shash, since the story is all about the take-over of Pluto by the alien Usarians!

Si.

[SiHart]

So, that would make Underworld the first story without a monster in the 70s then?

[Si Hunt]

The CSO is a bit of a beast.

Si.

[Stuart Wallis]

Yes?

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

Three of my earliest cogent "I know what story those are from" Who memories are from this one - the gassy end of part one, the steamy end of part three, and the shrinky green climax in part four.

[Si Hunt]

This isn't a great story. The ideas are great, and the basic details in the storyline are very clever; all the references to the tax system, P7E, Inner Retinue, growth tax, the consume card, the fact that no-one knows what trees are; amongst this is a couple of inspired performances - the Gatherer is a wonderfully over the top creation, Louise Jameson is brilliant as Leela with aggression masking a very delicate personality (I like the bit when she goes from threatening to fill the floor with blood to tenderly asking what the nature of her death will be) and K9 has a few great moments - "Walk? I'll be good!" and when he persists in asking if his performance has been "Satisfactory mistress?" not to mention berating the Doctor for embaressing him.

But this tries the patience with three mundane contributions - the direction is insipid and workmanlike (come in Pennant Roberts, on his way to Warriors of the Deep and Timelash), the sets have a few neat flashes of inspiration but on the whole are horrible, blocky walls and corridors in a lifeless beige, and the music tootles away aimlessly. On top of this the basic action plot just runs round in circles - the Doctor is captured, the Doctor is released, Leela is captured, the Doctor rescues Leela.

It's also gutting that while "Underworld" would shortly afterwards have to try and stage an alien planet in CSO, here we have lots of plain white corridors and dark caves and it's all done on film! Something wrong somewhere, there.

Si.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

all the references to the tax system, P7E, Inner Retinue, growth tax, the consume card, the fact that no-one knows what trees are

I spotted the deliberate mistake there, do I win a prize?

[Si Hunt]

No!

Si.

[Ssarl]

It really depends on what you call a monster.

Underworld's got evil robots. Got to count robots or else you have to discount Robot, Pirate Planet, Terminus, King's Demons, Planet of Fire, Mysterious Planet and Paradise Towers.

Face of Evil doesn't even have robots, just a computer and some people in silly hats. The Mark of the Rani's best offering is a sentient tree.

What about humanoids? Deadly Assassin, Keeper of Traken, Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment and Ultimate Foe have aliens but they just look like people (some of them are terribly injured but it feels a bit horrible to call that a monster). Terminus and Pirate Planet are similar but they've got nifty robot animals.

You could argue that dinosaurs are just animals, and the ones in Invasion aren't space dinosaurs or anything.

And then there's the stories that get all political about it. The whole point of The Mutants is it doesn't have any monsters in it! Even more so for The Silurians (it's so ingrained that nobody has ever written even a slightly different story about them). The latter lose credulity by ceaselessly murdering everyone while the Doctor pontificates about their peacefulness, but I don't think the Mutts ever actually do anything evil?

[Si Hunt]

Hello Mr Sarl where did you spring from? Nice to see you again!

Si.

[Rob McCow]

Interesting stuff about the monsters. Perhaps you could take it as 'Iconic alien creatures that they could actually take a photo of'. While the Usurian is iconic-looking, he's not very alien in his appearance. But very very strictly speaking, I suppose he is a monster for around four seconds of screen time.

[SiHart]

Face of Evil had the Horda.

[Ssarl]

Wherever there are lists to be made, there I am. I've been lurking a little bit in the Torchwood section lately but haven't had much to say.

How are things? I hope lovely.

[Rob McCow]

Things are mostly lovely! Some people don't like the new episode of Doctor Who (bizarrely?)

[Ssarl]

I haven't seen it! We're having a party when it airs in Australia, with scarves and cake and things. Thankfully I haven't learned anything about it yet.

[Rob McCow]

It's Louise Jameson's favourite story. Tell that to your Australian friends!

[Ssarl]

They would have no idea who Lousie Jameson is, but they will happily go out on the street in cosplay. Last time we did this I was the only one not wearing a scarf, fez or a tweed jacket. It is very strange to feel outdone at Doctor Who.

I'm going to try and show them Genesis of the Daleks again. Last time we made it about five minutes into Part Two. They ripped it to shreds (and they didn't even get to the giant clam). I could not convince them that this is generally considered a very good story; as soon as the cast got into a silly transporter to slowly drive down a short corridor, that was it.

The final straw came when everyone happened to go quiet just as some bloke strokes Sarah Jane's face and says 'she is a norm' in the gravest tone. Everyone lost it and have spent the last couple months talking about Norms and Mutos. Nobody has said anything about Davros whatsoever.

They keep me humble!

[Rob McCow]

They sound extremely fussy. It also seems like they haven't watched any other TV from the 70's. Heaven knows how they'd make it through the Sunmakers. Perhaps if they watched it on their own, in 25 minute segments, rather than as a big group all together?

No. Scratch that. There's only one solution.

Make them watch The Web Planet!

[Si Hunt]

Some people don't like the new episode of Doctor Who (bizarrely?)

I liked it, mostly. But I can see why other people might have a different opinion.

Si.

[Ssarl]

I actually did that to a girl once. The Centre, in Spanish, no subtitles or previous eps. She thinks the Zarbi are cute.

Her first Who was Underwater Menace 3 and she's still around so she's an easy mark really