View Poll Results: How would you rate The Daemons?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10: With Horns!

    4 30.77%
  • 9: bmal ettil a dah yram

    3 23.08%
  • 8: Chap with the wings

    4 30.77%
  • 7: I'd rather have a pint

    0 0%
  • 6: Fancy a dance?

    1 7.69%
  • 5: QuiQuaiQuod

    1 7.69%
  • 4: Why don't get out of that ridiculous garb?

    0 0%
  • 3: No! Take me!

    0 0%
  • 2: Rational existentialist priest

    0 0%
  • 1: WIG?

    0 0%
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
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    Default Rate and Discuss: The Dæmons



    Devil's End! Azal! The Master! UNIT in civvies! Miss Hawthorne! Bok! Chap with the wings, they blew up the church, etc etc

    The Daemons brings Season 8 to a close. Does it deserve its reputation? You tell us...

    Si xx

    I've just got my handcuffs and my truncheon and that's enough.

  2. #2
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    The Daemons, an atypical Pertwee story which comes up for a lot of criticism as it seems to be all froth and no substance, and unfortunately Pertwee himself comes over as a tad annoying in this one. As one who thoroughly enjoyed this on its original transmission, today I find it a story that's really hard to get into and enjoy.
    On the surface the story promises loads. There are all the Pertwee hallmarks present in this one, plenty of action, explosions, helicopter chases. There are portents of doom, Miss Hawthorne protesting at the dig, and, when he arrives at Devil's End, The Doctor follows suit with warnings of cataclysm.
    There are one or two great moments in the story, the appearence of Bok and the subsequent UNIT standoff with the gargoyle, culminating in everyone's favourite line "... five rounds rapid" seems to be the most famous scene of all.
    We know that Azal is the main threat, he puts in three appearences, two of them not seen on screen but certainly felt. He has been summoned by The Master via a faux satanic ritual, but as soon as the Doctor and the Master meet in the final episode, they immediately join forces against Azal and he is defeated, (notwithstanding a noble offer of sacrifice by Jo) resulting in a climactic explosion marking the end of the threat, the Doctor and co. do a merry jig around the Maypole and that's it, end of season.
    It's not the classic once claimed, and certainly not a story that I would cite as Who at its very best.
    Last edited by Stephen Morgan; 7th Feb 2011 at 3:35 PM.

  3. #3
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    I know I'm a bit down on this story, but really it should have been so much better than this.

    The characterisation feels wrong, which considering Barry Letts wrote this, is a bit of a pity. The Third Doctor isn't at all likeable in this- he's rude, condescending to everyone around him- especially Jo who berates all the way through and to me, it really feels wrong. This isn't a Doctor I like. The Third Doctor is often a pompous sod, but never more so than here, only this time the pomposity isn't confronted as it so often, entertaingly is, so it just feels horrible to me.

    The story itself is ok, though the ending could be considered a little weak. Considering how rude the Doctor has been to her all the way through, Jo's faith in him is rather lovely.

    Of course, nothing could really live up to the hype this story used to get from Mr Pertwee and the UNIT family but for me this one has always been a disappointment. My least favourite of Season 8.

    Si xx

    I've just got my handcuffs and my truncheon and that's enough.

  4. #4
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    I see you and I have similar views on this one Si.

  5. #5
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    The Dæmons, regarded by everyone who made it as the best thing since sliced bread and worthy of it's own feature-length docmentary (Return to Devil's End) before DVD documentaries had been invented.

    It's also a tricky story, because of various reasons that Stephen has stated above. Pertwee is unbelieveably rude to Osgood, who is after all only trying his best. He patronises the hell out of the Brigadier, Jo and the cast of yokels in the pub with great aplomb.

    Yet I can't help but love it. It defines the idylic country village. For anyone who's been to the green where it was filmed, you'll know what a fantastic location it was and what a sense of nostalgia it invokes. There's loads of wonderful location filming that shows the village off at it's best.

    Then there's Miss Hawthorne, the White Witch. She's such a fabulous character she could have come from her own TV series. She has a poise about her reminiscent of Miss Marple. She seems well-educated and civilised, both of which make her seem totally self-assured as a Witch. Best of all, she doesn't take any cr*p from anyone, whether it's 'Mr Magister', the Brigadier or the Doctor. She's fab!

    A number of other things I love about The Dæmons are:
    The scene in the pub where the Master starts to cajole the people into serving him, but ends up threatening them instead. The whole concept of the Devil's End Parish Council ruling the world is rather wonderful.
    The Heat Barrier - there's a lot of faffing about with the heat barrier, but it's a great idea. Step here and you're OK, but take a step further forward and you get fried!
    The Doctor getting menaced by sinister Morris Dancers, then escaping by pretending to be a wizard.

    And loads of other things. With Horns!
    Pity. I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank. EXTERMINATE!

  6. #6
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    What "The Daemons" has is bags of atmosphere - watching it feels like reliving a great summer adventure; the monsters are particuarly inventive from the living Gargoyle Bok to the gigantic Azal, a brilliantly made up Steven Thorne. There's all the staples of a great 'sinister village' story here - the Church, the pub, the crypt/cavern... and some excellent characters like Miss Hawthorne.

    I don't really understand why people slate the ending - it's not a cop-out, the Daemon sees humanity as an experiment, so he can't comprehend Jo doing something unpredictable. His entire purpose is to finish his experiment, and suddenly it doesn't make sense anymore. It's not so crazy that he self-destructs.

    And Pertwee is entitled to lose his temper in the pub - all he wants to know is how to get to the dig, he's in a hurry to save the world, and those stupid people keep asking him daft questions. Anyone who's ever tried to get a straight answer out of someone when in a hurry will understand.

    Si.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Si Hunt View Post
    What "The Daemons" has is bags of atmosphere - watching it feels like reliving a great summer adventure; the monsters are particuarly inventive from the living Gargoyle Bok to the gigantic Azal, a brilliantly made up Steven Thorne. There's all the staples of a great 'sinister village' story here - the Church, the pub, the crypt/cavern... and some excellent characters like Miss Hawthorne.

    I don't really understand why people slate the ending - it's not a cop-out, the Daemon sees humanity as an experiment, so he can't comprehend Jo doing something unpredictable. His entire purpose is to finish his experiment, and suddenly it doesn't make sense anymore. It's not so crazy that he self-destructs.

    And Pertwee is entitled to lose his temper in the pub - all he wants to know is how to get to the dig, he's in a hurry to save the world, and those stupid people keep asking him daft questions. Anyone who's ever tried to get a straight answer out of someone when in a hurry will understand.

    Si.
    I'm completely in agreement with you, Si. The story has so much atmosphere, and it also gives the UNIT team the chance to show off their heroic nature, albeit in their civvies. Yes, the Doctor as has been mentioned is pompous, but I would suggest that on viewing the other stories during Pertwee's tenure, that this is a big part of his character.

    It's still my favourite Petwee story, and Delgado is just excellent in it.

  8. #8
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    As a kid reading the book, the one thing that didn't convince me was where a giant Devil walks through an English village without anybody noticing. It's still a glaring flaw in the TV version, but that's really my only criticism (apart from the possible heresy of saying that the lady playing Miss Hawthorne isn't a very good actress).

    I can't separate my opinion of this one from the first time I saw it, during dark Wintry evenings in 1992 on BBC2. But even watching it again recently (the old off-air still going strong) I still really love it, and I don't think it's just blind nostalgia. I like Pertwee's rudeness in the part 1 pub scene, because it feels right - plus it makes Jo more than just a "so what is it?" companion, she's actually vital in that scene. And I like his frustration with, in particular, Osgood - the Doctor's been stuck on Earth for two years now, he should be getting frustrated with things! Plus, on the other side of the coin, he berates Jo for being disrespectful about the Brigadier, which is a nice touch.

    Things to love - the whole of part 1 is just a prologue to the four-parter to come, it seems to make no sense, with everybody wittering about disaster, and the Master apparently triumphant at the end. The Master as a Vicar. The UNIT gang in their casual clobber, and all getting a good bit to do. Professor Horner. The ending. Bok the Gargoyle.

    A definite thumbs up from me!

  9. #9
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    Professor Horner is fantastically rude to the irritating Alastair Fergus. And Rollo Gamble's mention of Pertwees wig is hilarious!

    Si.

  10. #10

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    Yes, I've waited for this.

    This is my all time favourite Doctor Who serial, having been the first serial I saw during it's repeat in 1992. It's fun and never a dull moment. Great performances and the highlight of the Pertwee era.

    10/10

  11. #11
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    One of many highlights in fact.

    Si.

  12. #12
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    Full marks from me. All hail Rev Magister
    'Steed is one of my most valuable subjects he's too valuable to lose'

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Si Hunt View Post
    the Daemon sees humanity as an experiment, so he can't comprehend Jo doing something unpredictable. His entire purpose is to finish his experiment, and suddenly it doesn't make sense anymore. It's not so crazy that he self-destructs.
    Speaking as a scientist who conducts experiments on a daily basis and who is frequently confronted with nonsensical results, all I can say is thank heaven human scientists don't over-react that way.

    Since the very nature of an experiment is to confirm or refute prediction (or, to put it another way, leave it and see what happens), an unpredictable result is one of the predicted outcomes! Unfortunately a lot of people don't do more 'experimenting' than a school science class, in whch the results are known in advance and which are not really experiments as such, more demonstrations of principles, which gives them a poor perspective on what an experiment actually is.

    The idea that any advanced life form would be so confused by the simple notion of self-sacrifice as to blow up spectatcularly just seems silly.

    And Pertwee is entitled to lose his temper in the pub - all he wants to know is how to get to the dig, he's in a hurry to save the world, and those stupid people keep asking him daft questions. Anyone who's ever tried to get a straight answer out of someone when in a hurry will understand.
    Now that I agree with. I quite like that scene, and my sympathies are very much with him throughout!

  14. #14
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    This is no ordinary experiment though - Azal is the last of his race, and looking to hand on his power to humanity. The experiment has lasted thousands of years. It's more akin to have spent your entire life (and all your savings) formulating a result, only to find it turns out to be something else entirely. It's no wonder he's annoyed.

    I see his self-destruction more as a result of him no longer serving any purpose, rather than because he just can't understand the self-sacrifice.

    Si.

  15. #15
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    I think if I'd been watching this story back in 1972 (or when ever it was) I'd of probably been thinking oh not the bloody Master, again as 5 stories into season 8 and it was getting jall ust a bit to repetetive. Having said that Delgado, gives his usual brilliant performance and Jo's "self sacrifice" for the Doctor, is about the only time a companion has been genuinly prepared to die for the Doctor. Perhaps slightly over rated but still one of the best stories in the Pertwee, era.

    Dose any one know why there are 5 episodes in this story .

  16. #16
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    One of the best Third Doctor stories. It's not flawless but the virtues exceed the faults by a large margin. The best bits for me are:-
    1. The Brig, 'Chap with wings, five rounds rapid!'
    2. The Doctor sending Bok running with that Venusian lullaby.
    3. Benton shooting the weathercock 'He must think I've got a rifle!'
    4. The Master 'Azal, Azal!'
    5. Miss Hawthorne. Priceless.

    This is one I've just got to get on DVD.

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