A moral quandry

[Alex]

Recently I read this quite amazing story:

Lone Nepali Gorkha who subdued 40 train robbers

POKHARA, Jan 13: Gorkha soldiers have long been known the world over for their valor and these khukuri-wielding warriors winning the British many a battle have become folklore.

A retired Indian Gorkha soldier recently revisited those glory days when he thwarted 40 robbers, killing three of them and injuring eight others, with his khukuri during a train journey. He is in line to receive three gallantry awards from the Indian government...

Shrestha, who was in the Maurya Express to Gorakhpur from Ranchi on September 2 while returning home following voluntary retirement from the Indian army--saved the girl who was going to be raped by the robbers in front of her hapless parents, and in doing so won plaudits from everybody.

The Indian government is to decorate Shrestha with its Sourya Chakra, Bravery Award and Sarvottam Jeevan Raksha Medal and the 35-year-old is leaving for India Saturday to receive the first of the awards on the occasion of India´s Republic Day on January 26...

The band of about 40 robbers, some of whom were travelling as passengers, stopped the train in the Chittaranjan jungles in West Bengal around midnight. Shrestha-- who had boarded the train at Ranchi in Jharkhand, the place of his posting--was in seat no. 47 in coach AC3.

“They started snatching jewelry, cell phones, cash, laptops and other belongings from the passengers,” Shrestha recalled. The soldier had somehow remained a silent spectator amidst the melee, but not for long. He had had enough when the robbers stripped an 18-year-old girl sitting next to him and tried to rape her right in front of her parents. He then took out his khukuri and took on the robbers.

“The girl cried for help, saying ´You are a soldier, please save a sister´,” Shrestha recalled. “I prevented her from being raped, thinking of her as my own sister,” he added. He took one of the robbers under control and then started to attack the others. He said the rest of the robbers fled after he killed three of them with his khukuri and injured eight others.

During the scuffle he received serious blade injury to his left hand while the girl also had a minor cut on her neck. “They had carried out their robbery with swords, blades and pistols. The pistols may have been fake as they didn´t open fire,” he surmised.

The train resumed its journey after some 20 minutes and a horde of media persons and police were present when it reached Chittaranja station. Police arrested the eight injured dacoits and recovered around 400,000 Indian rupees in cash, 40 gold necklaces, 200 cell phones, 40 laptops and other items that the fleeing robbers dropped in the train.

Police escorted Shrestha to the Railways Hospital after the rescued girl told them about his heroic deed. Mainstream Indian media carried the story. The parents of the girl, who was going for her MBBS studies, also announced a cash award of Indian rupees 300,000 for him but he has not met them since.

“Even the veins and arteries in my left hand were slit but the injury has now healed after two months of neurological treatment at the Command Hospital in Kolkata,” he said showing the scar. “Fighting the enemy in battle is my duty as a soldier; taking on the dacoits in the train was my duty as a human being,” said the Indian army nayak, who has been given two guards during his month-long holidays in Nepal.

“I am proud to be able to prove that a Gorkha soldier with a khukuri is really a handful. I would have been a meek spectator had I not carried that khukuri,” he said.

He still finds it hard to believe that he took on 40 armed robbers alone. “They may have feared that more of my army friends were traveling with me and fled after fighting me for around 20 minutes,” he explained.

And you know what, I thought it was fantastic stuff, and I admire the guy so much. If it had been just a robbery than I feel it would have been something of an over-reaction, but given that they tried to rape such a young girl too, I think they deserved everything they got.

But hang on a sec! That means I support vigilantes who act as judge, jury and executioner! That can't be right, as if everyone acted that way, the world would be a messy place. And okay, you could argue that he did what had to be done to the rapists - but what about the other thieves on the train who he killed who were there just for the money...But then there's the element that he was acting in self defence - though of course if he'd never done anything in the first place...And so on and so forth.

So, whaddya think?

[WhiteCrowNZ]

People shouldn't have to live in fear of criminals. But I don't like the idea of taking a life at all.

There was an interesting piece on this in the Watchmen DVD about Bernhard Goetz ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

A jury in the US found he was in his rights to kill 4 people on a subway because he felt intimidated by them.

In war and in police, there are generally agreed rules of engagement covering when and when not to use lethal force. Our army and police have to abide by strict rules.

[Andrew Curnow]

A bit like the 'votes for prisoners' thing, I think there's a point where your own actions have meant that your claim on certain 'basic' rights is no longer valid. So, although I agree with you Alex that we can't start just blindly accepting any vigilante acts, in this case the attempted rape is a point at which the robbers should no longer be expected to receive 'the protection of the law', so being attacked, and yes even killed, by this guy is not something I have a problem with.

True, it's tricky to say where that line should be drawn - if they were solely robbing people, I'd feel a lot less comfortable about it. But if they were prepared to rape one girl in such a situation, it's certainly arguable that they wouldn't have stopped there - in other words, although as it turned out they did 'only' rob people, chances are they would have done a lot worse if left to their own devices.

Maybe I should, but I don't have a problem with this particular story at all.

[Si Hunt]

I think it should be noted that he had trained as a soldier, and it was rightly or wrongly his job to take the life of someone who threatened another.

It's hard not to feel anything but that justice was done to the robbers.

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

Let's also remember the robbers and rapists were armed, and he had no reason to suppose that they would show him any mercy. Without more details of exactly who was killed and what exactly was happening at the moment of their deaths, we can't really stand in judgement based solely on the fact that he took three lives. If those three men were attacking him and others with their weapons with murderous intent then there is a limit, in the confines of a train carriage, as to what you can do to defend yourself, and if it is a case of lethal force being your last recourse, then that is what must be done.

I am very much of the opinion that if a gang of people conspire together with the intention of intimidating, threatening, robbing and raping another group in a remote area, far from official enforcement officers, then if someone decides to take them on in defence of innocent victims then well done that man.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I like the way they tell us his seat and coach number, as if that's the detail that we need to know.

[Si Hunt]

Whisper it, but you ALMOST wonder why he took so long to get involved. He had the skill and training to kill three armed men, yet until someone actually started getting raped he sat back and watched everyone get robbed.

Si.

[Alex]

Well there were 40 of them. And innocent bystanders could have been hurt, which he might have considered to be too much of a risk when it came to it as they were only being robbed. But when they crossed that line it to physically assaulting people, that's when he thought he'd take action.

For the record I do support his actions in this case completely. Yet at the same time, if innocent people had been hurt due to his actions, I'm sure the press would have put a completely different spin on it...