Rate and Discuss 6.2: Day of the Moon

[FlyingBeastie]

Everyone doesn't need to own a gun. one of The Silence could be killed in a variety of ways. If someone sees them in a street and attacks them, then people stop and look at someone going a bit nuts against thin air, then see the Silence themselves and also attack. The threat was that the Silence would never be safe staying on earth. The Doctor doesn't intend to let the humans wipe the Silence out, he's left them in a position where staying on earth is untenable because that would happen

My brother said the same thing, as well as how the lightening power they posses takes a while for them to charge. And, essentially, they'll never have the power to influence people in power ever again.

... but still, just from my own personal taste, I can't envision pensioners in a home whacking at a Silent with their walkers and canes. It's almost comical.

Also, being that these aliens didn't have the sort of tech to get themselves OFF of Earth in the first place and the Doctor knows that... so I can see how he wants to foster a dangerous enviornment for The Silents to make them want to leave- but, the problem is, they don't possess the tech to actually do that...

[FlyingBeastie]

- When was the TARDIS sabotaged??

Ahem... series 5 finale... when it blew up...

[FlyingBeastie]

Some more random thoughts...

The Silence call Amy "Amelia". Could the still unexplained (to my knowledge) shadow that flits across the screen in The Eleventh Hour be a Silent?

That was resolved-

People keep shooting this down, but I assert it's The Doctor from The Big Bang.The reason why people keep saying it's not him is because Amelia is sitting upright in Eleventh Hour and The Doctor finds her sleeping in The Big Bang.

This could easily be explained as a production fudge (i.e. Rory's badge says 1990, when the Atraxi are flying away the long shot shows the Doctor being burned by the TARDIS key in his pocket, but the next closeup shot of him shows he's just looking at the Atraxi flying away and then starts being burned by the TARDIS key)

Also, Silents have never been shown to run- I think it's cos their heads would fall off.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Again, a whole lot of assumptions and leaps of faith...

Yes, if you ignore the fact that that part was made quite clear in the episode


Also... people seem to keep asking why the Silence wanted to go to the Moon. But it was only ever said that they wanted a space suit, not to go to the Moon.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

That was resolved-

People keep shooting this down, but I assert it's The Doctor from The Big Bang.The reason why people keep saying it's not him is because Amelia is sitting upright in Eleventh Hour and The Doctor finds her sleeping in The Big Bang.

Again, a whole lot of assumptions and leaps of faith...

I'd assert that it isn't the Doctor as a) the timing is all wrong as you've just said. b) the shadow is clearly running, and the Doctor isn't shown to run when he goes back to the house. c) He also isn't shown to go anywhere near the kitchen when he goes back to the house.

Either way, it's clearly not resolved.

[FlyingBeastie]

Yes, if you ignore the fact that that part was made quite clear in the episode

When exactly? Cos the moment Canton steps in the cube and The Doctor breaks the chains he hasn't "saved" River from her fall?

Throughout what time does The Doctor go into the TARDIS and get her if he's being monitored at all times?

Who cloaked the TARDIS? It was decloaked in the White House...

That whole part of the episode just makes no sense and it's a slap in the face to your audience if you're not going to bother explaining it.

[FlyingBeastie]

Again, a whole lot of assumptions and leaps of faith...

I'd assert that it isn't the Doctor as a) the timing is all wrong as you've just said. b) the shadow is clearly running, and the Doctor isn't shown to run when he goes back to the house. c) He also isn't shown to go anywhere near the kitchen when he goes back to the house.

Either way, it's clearly not resolved.

If you slow it down, the shape looks a lot like Smith. And, again, a lot of things are being done for effect on this show now and I don't see why we'd ever go back to that night with little Amelia anymore because things are more focused on Amy's "is she/isn't she" pregnancy.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

How the TARDIS ends up cloaked inside the box isn't explained, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. The whole sequence of events leading to the Doctor being chained up in there in the first place aren't explained either. Maybe you don't like the fact that a big chunk of time has been missed out, but that's not the same thing as being nonsensical.

And the Doctor clearly says to Amy something about going and getting the swimming pool ready, right before River falls through the open TARDIS doors into a load of water, so I'd have to say it's very clearly implied that he went back to pick her up.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

If you slow it down, the shape looks a lot like Smith. And, again, a lot of things are being done for effect on this show now and I don't see why we'd ever go back to that night with little Amelia anymore because things are more focused on Amy's "is she/isn't she" pregnancy.

That's just your theory though. It's clearly not been objectively resolved and you can't argue that it has.

[JohnMan]

I just finished the first two episodes of the new season... and I must say, I am loving this so far. A lot of the complaints seem to be because a lot of questions haven't been answered. Well, give the Who-team till the end of the season to answer them before you form any serious oppinions about the show.

The fact that there is a major storyline reaching past and episode or two is a good thing. People are comparing the show to Lost, but that isn't fair. Lost went 6 seasons of twenty something episodes and still didn't make sense when it went off the air. Doctor Who is nothing like that, nor will it be.

I finished Day of the Moon VERY excited about what's to come. I'm giddy like a regenerating school girl. I'm not a big fan of pirates, but even the next episode excites me. It's just something different from a cast, crew, and show that i deeply love!

Awesome stuff!!!!

[Larry]

How the TARDIS ends up cloaked inside the box isn't explained, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. .

well I suppose it could be explained by The Doctor and Canton, making a plan to draw the Silence but if that was the case then it should of been explained better.

[Paul Clement]

That's a whole lot of assumptions, and, again, make the Silents look really dumb. How is it that they can be present for the Doctor's death, post-hypnotic suggest, and yet can't figure out they're being fooled?

Talk about a massive plot hole....

Originally Posted by Paul Clement
She didn't park the TARDIS. The Doctor does after Canton tells him she jumped off the building. She knows the Doctor will save her, but she couldn't do it herself as the TARDIS was already in the cube. The cube was built around the Doctor and it. The TARDIS was invisible as it was when they first materialised in the oval office.



Again, a whole lot of assumptions and leaps of faith...

It's not an assumption, it's stated by the Doctor after the TARDIS reappears, with Canton telling him about River going off the building and the Doctor telling Amy to get the swimming pool ready.

[Darren]

Not really. In Silence in the Library she jettisoned herself into space never doubting for a moment that the Doctor would come for her.

[Darren]

Ahem... series 5 finale... when it blew up...

Oh I thought you were still talking Day of the Moon.

[Larry]

Not really. In Silence in the Library she jettisoned herself into space never doubting for a moment that the Doctor would come for her.

I think you'll find that was Time of Angles.

[Darren]

Doh!!!


I think you'll find that was Time of Angels.

[egdcltd]

The Doctor doesn't die, but being shot whilst regenerating and then being set on fire makes his regeneration go horribly wrong.

[SiHart]

I'd just like to say we don't know for cvertain that's Amy's baby in the photo- she could just be holding the baby.

Secondly there's something big going down with the end of the series last year. I think we're in some kind of rebooted universe. That's why Any's pregnancy showed up positive then negative ect because it doesn't quite work in this new universe. If Rory can remember his time as a Centurion, then something isn't quite right here.

I think we'll have to wait and watch the series very carefully in the coming weeks, because Moffat isn't going to give us all the answers at once. Like it or not, this is a very different way of doing Doctor Who (as Si said) and we're all going to have to get used paying more attention because even the smallest hints mean something now.

[FlyingBeastie]

The whole sequence of events leading to the Doctor being chained up in there in the first place aren't explained either. Maybe you don't like the fact that a big chunk of time has been missed out, but that's not the same thing as being nonsensical.

It is nonsensical if nothing's being explained and I'm watching a whole bunch of events that I have no idea what's going on or what anyone's motives are.

I wouldn't mind a big chunk of time passing, so long as if the events that happened during it actually made a difference and furthered the plot.

Why did they need to be separated for 3 months when there's a scene in the TARDIS where River is looking at a screen and there's a bunch of blips that signifies how many Silents there are? So did they really need to do recon for 3 months? I think not.

The whole opening sequence for me was just unnecessary and didn't add anything to the story except once again we're led to believe characters are dying when in fact they aren't. The whole thing has gotten silly, to the point where I was literally rolling my eyes at the premiere and sighed.

And the Doctor clearly says to Amy something about going and getting the swimming pool ready,

Did he? Or did he say to open the swimming pool doors because she was in there already?

I'm gonna go rewatch it and double check- but frankly, when there are big points that need to be made, the dialogue shouldn't go at a mile a minute.

[FlyingBeastie]

I'd just like to say we don't know for cvertain that's Amy's baby in the photo- she could just be holding the baby.

Secondly there's something big going down with the end of the series last year. I think we're in some kind of rebooted universe. That's why Any's pregnancy showed up positive then negative ect because it doesn't quite work in this new universe. If Rory can remember his time as a Centurion, then something isn't quite right here.

I think we'll have to wait and watch the series very carefully in the coming weeks, because Moffat isn't going to give us all the answers at once. Like it or not, this is a very different way of doing Doctor Who (as Si said) and we're all going to have to get used paying more attention because even the smallest hints mean something now.

You mean like that random woman who said "she's still dreaming"? Dunno if there's been another trailer released for you guys, but we saw a series 6 trailer that included her and a bunch of white robots that looked very similar to the Mind Robber.

Frankly, I get the sinking feeling that this whole thing with River and Amy and Rory has to do with implanting memories that never happened- because, again, Moffat recycles the same elements.

He did it in Forests of the Dead, he did it last series with the whole "she used her imagination to bring everyone back" (again, I just didn't like device and thought it was lame), and he's resurfacing again with the whole "post-hypnotic suggestion" thing.

I wouldn't mind it all if it was less up-its-own-arse, was better written, was less convoluted in terms of the number of questions being raised, if we had better character definition, and if there was actually more to the story in terms of universal themes.

[Andrew Curnow]

Oh I feel a lot better now, I didn't hate it that much!

Jason will probably be able to answer this, but something else that has occured to me today is that if the Silence have actually stage-managed the moon landings simply to invent the spacesuit... wouldn't the spacesuit have been invented years before, when we started putting men into orbit back in the early 60s?

I also feel, but slightly tongue-in-cheek with this one, that if by the end of the season the spacesuit is still the only motive for the Silence in this story, then it makes the US location for the story a little bit tenuous, as the moon landing is almost incidental... It's not a real criticism, but hey we never forgive Arc of Infinity for its irrelevant Amsterdam setting, why should Moffat get away with it!!

[duncan]

Just how are they going to get out of killing the Doctor then?

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree here, but the Doctor was shot twice by the Astronaut with the second shot ending the regeneration. Could that second shot be some sort of body swap where the Doctor ended up looking like the little girl, hence the regeneration?

[FlyingBeastie]

Oh I feel a lot better now, I didn't hate it that much!

Yeah, trust me- no one can hate it as much as I do

[Alex]

I just finished the first two episodes of the new season... and I must say, I am loving this so far. A lot of the complaints seem to be because a lot of questions haven't been answered. Well, give the Who-team till the end of the season to answer them before you form any serious oppinions about the show.

Well said that man! This is how I feel as well, I love a good mystery and like the idea of a big season arc which follows an ongoing story, rather than just a key word like "Bad Wolf" or "Torchwood". If at the end of the year Moffat's let us down I'll be the first to complain, but give the man a chance first!

The fact that there is a major storyline reaching past and episode or two is a good thing. People are comparing the show to Lost, but that isn't fair. Lost went 6 seasons of twenty something episodes and still didn't make sense when it went off the air. Doctor Who is nothing like that, nor will it be.

I'd have no problem with it being like Lost to be honest (as long as it had a good ending and not a ****ing terrible one!) but know that it's unlikely as it'd be too big a risk for the Beeb to risk, and audience ratings would very likely decline. But to have a storyline like this, and the stand alone episodes too, makes me very excited about this year's series.

I finished Day of the Moon VERY excited about what's to come. I'm giddy like a regenerating school girl. I'm not a big fan of pirates, but even the next episode excites me. It's just something different from a cast, crew, and show that i deeply love!

Awesome stuff!!!!

Sometimes I love Gaiman, sometimes I find him frustrating, but given how this is a dream project for him I'm really optimistic and can't wait to see it.

I wouldn't mind it all if it was less up-its-own-arse, was better written, was less convoluted in terms of the number of questions being raised, if we had better character definition, and if there was actually more to the story in terms of universal themes.

I'm afraid I disagree, sorry Beastie. I think they've been some superb moments across the two episodes, with images that have remained in my mind since. The Silence for me are the best villain Moffat's created (ah, if only he hadn't have spoilt the weeping angels so in The Time Of Angels / Flesh and Stone). I love that there's so many questions posed (and compared to Lost, this is still child's play ) Amy and Rory have never been more appealing, Matt's still truly brilliant, and as for universal themes - well, there's the nature of love and friendship, the fear of it falling apart, the lengths we have to go to to do good, and the lines that sometimes must be crossed, the horror of death and losing a loved one, and the greed of those who wish to rule the world.

And they're just the ones off the top of my head. Now I don't think that's too bad for a two parter!

[FlyingBeastie]

I'm afraid I disagree, sorry Beastie. I think they've been some superb moments across the two episodes, with images that have remained in my mind since. The Silence for me are the best villain Moffat's created (ah, if only he hadn't have spoilt the weeping angels so in The Time Of Angels / Flesh and Stone). I love that there's so many questions posed (and compared to Lost, this is still child's play ) Amy and Rory have never been more appealing, Matt's still truly brilliant, and as for universal themes - well, there's the nature of love and friendship, the fear of it falling apart, the lengths we have to go to to do good, and the lines that sometimes must be crossed, the horror of death and losing a loved one, and the greed of those who wish to rule the world.

And they're just the ones off the top of my head. Now I don't think that's too bad for a two parter!

But The Silence are such a carbon copy of the angels. Perhaps it's cos I'm a horror/suspense fan, but they weren't creepy or scary at all to me (and I watched both parts in a dark movie theater) Boils down to personal taste, again, but there's no denying they're just angels with the ability to make you forget they were ever there.

How are Amy and Rory appealing to you? In your own words, I'd like to know. Because I don't see anything to them at all. Rory's character is very dependent on Amy's character and who she is, and I still can't put my finger on her as a character.

I meant the general theme of the series and The Doctor and how the situations and monsters and obstacles before the heroes are symbols for something greater.

For example, RTD's years were all about loneliness and the master in series 3's finale used this as a weapon against The Doctor by refusing to regenerate leaving The Doctor alone, with no hope of ever being together with his people again. And, when he was given that opportunity during The End of Time, he threw it away, because he saw someone he cared about dissenting- just as he would.

That's why it doesn't matter who that Timelady was; because (again, duality) The doctor looks at Donna and then to Wilf and Donna's mom- she was someone he cared about deeply and knew he had to hold true to his principles no matter how painful the result of his actions would be.


See? Something like that.

What was the deeper meaning of Pandorica Opens/Big Bang?