Moffat vs Fandom

[SiHart]

Well Kind of anyway: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainm...medium=twitter

Doctor Who chief writer Steven Moffat has attacked fans of the show who reveal crucial plot lines ahead of transmission.

"You can imagine how much I hate them," he told BBC Radio 5 live. "It's only fans who do this, or they call themselves fans.

"I wish they could go and be fans of something else."

Before the current series began, a fan posted the entire plot of the first two episodes on an internet forum.

They were among a number of fans who were invited to a press screening, at which the production team asked people not to give away spoilers.

"It's heartbreaking in a way because you're trying to tell stories, and stories depend on surprise," said Moffat.

"So to have some twit who came to a press launch, write up a story in the worst, most ham-fisted English you can imagine, and put it on the internet.

"I just hope that guy never watched my show again, because that's a horrific thing to do."

He said the majority of Doctor Who fans were "spoiler-phobes" who refused to go online for fear of finding out any information in advance.

"They want to preserve the surprise," he said. "The tragedy is you have to work hard at that now."

Moffat said he believed that keeping elements of storylines under wraps was an essential element in drama.

"Stories depend on shocking people," he said.

"Stories are the moments that you didn't see coming, that are what live in you and burn in you forever.

"If you are denied those, it's vandalism."

The current series of Doctor Who continues on BBC One on Saturday.
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[Si Hunt]

Unfortunately it's human nature. It's not the internet, that's just a tool, it's not Twitter or "technology" (see the Super Injunctions scandal) it's just people. There are lot of idiots and gits in the world. But what can you do about that?

Si.

[Rob McCow]

Surprising that the BBC would choose to run this as a story. It's controversial of course, but I think it's a very negative attitude, or at least it comes across that way. As a producer for the show, he should take a leaf out of Russell's book and be super-captain-positive about everyone and everything. You don't know how these things might come back to bite you in the rear end.

In a way, his anger shows that he's passionate about the show. But displaying that anger can only hurt the production in the long run.

[Lissa]

Reading the old mid-80s DWBs as I occasionally do, there wasn't really a concept of spoilers back then. A fanzine like DWB revealed anything and everything it could under the heading of "News" and people lapped it up.

[Jon Masters]

Presumably he's never going to give another interview to the Radio Times then, who published a lovely picture ruining a major surprise for the last episode in this block.

No point in me avoiding fan spoilers if official releases do exactly the same

[Perry Vale]

There are lot of idiots and gits in the world. But what can you do about that?

Si.

Not invite them to press screenings.

I'm with Moffat here. The story (here) isn't really that of him against fandom, it's about a breach of trust, and breach of promise, from someone who'd been given the opportunity that thousands of others would give their right arm for.

[SiHart]

Yeah, it's not the showing of the episodes early, it's the few that have seen them playing one upmanship and ruining it for everyone else. I can see exactly what he means and why he's upset about it.

However, I think it's something that's always going to happen. As Lissa says, the 80s were full of it- people printing every rumour, every fact, everything that's coming up and it's a difficult mindset to get out of.

I was relieved this was the story though, as I dreaded finding out that the story publicised on BBC Breakfast would be Moffat complaining about fans complaining they don't like his version of the show. That would have been terribly bad publicity.

[Awesome Wells]

Rumours and spoilers and guesswork are one thing - right or wrong, they're going to happen (and as Lissa says, it's been going on for decades). However, sad wankers who think there's anything remotely cool or clever in deliberately saying "I was at the Doctor Who preview show and here's what happens in the minutest detail in episodes one, two and ninety million", using their inside knowledge under the deluded impression that it makes them somehow important is quite another. I mean, how much of a tosser do you have to be? That isn't spoiling a show; it's ruining it. If anybody starts a "Ruiners" thread on here, I would imagine it would be viewed by about 0.5 people, and rightly so.

[Perry Vale]

I like Moffat's tweet about it...

Finally heard my own rant. Grumpy sod. And what a boring, inflection free voice! It's like been told off by the shipping forecast.

[Jon Masters]

Here's a thought - don't have a preview show.

Be confident in your own programme and don't use it as a treat for sucking up to all your DW and TV mates, or that fine body of people - the press.

[Awesome Wells]

Here's a thought - don't have a preview show.

Be confident in your own programme and don't use it as a treat for sucking up to all your DW and TV mates, or that fine body of people - the press.

I think that's a fairly harsh thing to say. The preview show is a premiere; an event that generates publicity and garners press attention for the beginning of the series. It's not sucking up to anybody.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm not 100% sure what the point of a press screening is if you then tell them not to say anything about what they've been watching?

More to the point, though, although I agree the person who posted the plot on the 'net (BTW, is it one person, or just 'various fans who went to the preview'?) was doing it probably for rather selfish, oneupmanship reasons - despite that, it's still down to the people reading it to choose to read it. Nobody's having it forced on them are they?

The phrase 'quiet news day' comes to mind.

[Jon Masters]

an event that generates publicity and garners press attention for the beginning of the series. It's not sucking up to anybody.

Sorry, but I find that a contradiction in terms. You're asking them to be interested in your show by giving them an exclusive viewing of your first 2 episodes, probably with free wine and cheesy nibbles. You're dangling a huge carrot in front of some of the great and good of fandom (almost certainly - I can't say for a fact , I wasn't there) so they can drip feed into the world how great the new series is going to be and well worth watching.

Then you get really upset that someone has abused your hospitality by giving away the secrets you were happy to hand to them on a plate.

A detailed season trailer, a chance to meet and quiz the stars, even a few people dressed up as the Silents if you want (since their appearance gets blown by you on the cover of the RT) is more than enough to garner press interest - they know DW stories will sell. If it was good enough in the past why isn't it now ?

Sorry , Dave, it's not a rant at you - I just really dislike both the past and present prodcution teams' attitude to the fans (who allegedly spoil everything), when they're almost as bad themselves (but call it 'publicity').

[Awesome Wells]

Sorry, but I find that a contradiction in terms. You're asking them to be interested in your show by giving them an exclusive viewing of your first 2 episodes, probably with free wine and cheesy nibbles. You're dangling a huge carrot in front of some of the great and good of fandom (almost certainly - I can't say for a fact , I wasn't there) so they can drip feed into the world how great the new series is going to be and well worth watching.

Then you get really upset that someone has abused your hospitality by giving away the secrets you were happy to hand to them on a plate.

A detailed season trailer, a chance to meet and quiz the stars, even a few people dressed up as the Silents if you want (since their appearance gets blown by you on the cover of the RT) is more than enough to garner press interest - they know DW stories will sell. If it was good enough in the past why isn't it now ?

Sorry , Dave, it's not a rant at you - I just really dislike both the past and present prodcution teams' attitude to the fans (who allegedly spoil everything), when they're almost as bad themselves (but call it 'publicity').

No worries, Jon.

I agree in principle with your latter point: why are press screenings be opened up to fans? I fear that it can only be because the production team want them there to generate a bit of atmosphere - laugh loudly, scream, and whoop wildly at any opportunity - because they can be a bit sterile if everyone's tapping away on phones, writing on pads (notepaper and I) and what have you. It makes it glitzy and theatrical and I suppose that's deliberately calculated.

However, there is a difference between people praising what they've seen, doing spoiler-free reviews, generating publicity, etc - all things that the fans who attended the screening could have done - and writing crappy-but-detailed episode synopses pre-transmission. That's just designed to bolster the ego of the people writing it - "Look what I know" - in a manner that screams out IAN LEVINE.

I can see why the production team want fans present - I must admit, until this row blew up, I didn't know there were any fans there - but I can equally see why The Moff is pissed off.

But anyway, having see The Doctor's Wife, you wouldn't believe the moment when----------

[WhiteCrowNZ]

I remember going to an advance screening of Star Trek V in London, organised by Starburst. A WHOLE MONTH BEFORE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

It took me a second screening to work out I was wrong, and it wasn't as good as I thought first time. I blame Carol Keating distracting me!

[Si Hunt]

Why not just make it so you don't have huge story arc plot resolutions in the first episode?

Si.

[Larry]

Sadly there are some fans out there who take a perverse delight in ruining things for other s and in some ways I agree with what Moffatt, is saying yes as a writter/producer (and fan) it must be frustrating to see plot lines splashed all over the internet but he's been in the game long enough to know it happens. Having said that the main Doctor Who forums like Gallifrey Base and DWO, have dedicated spoiler sections where the only fans reading them are those who want to know everything . I suspect like me the majority of fans on these forums stay away from the spoiler sections so while Moffatt, has a valid point he's probably at the same time making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Si Hunt]

Playing Devils Advocate, I think human nature is a little more complex than people simply thinking "I'm going to ruin someones enjoyment of this!". I don't really think that's the motive. I think it's down to three discrete factors coming together.

The first is that the nature of some people is that they (a) can't keep a secret; as soon as they know something they have a huge desire to tell someone else. We've all felt this surely? and (b) They desperately like being the one who tells everyone else someone first. Surely we've all felt like this. When you hear a bit of Doctor Who news, who doesn't secretely hope that no-one else has posted it so they can be the one to start the thread?

Secondly: the fact that we all find it very hard resisting looking at something we know we'll regret looking at once we've seen it. Who has NEVER peeked at a spoiler? Usually I'm ok but every now and then something comes along and I just think "Sod it, I want to know!" and of course when I DO know, I wish I hadn't looked.

And lastly of course it's the 'spoiler' information appearing to start with.

The thing is, I can see how this happened entirely due to the above - and these are all things I'll bet each of is is guilty of on their own. The trouble is when you get a combination of (a) A massive spoiler being released (b) A person who can't keep their mouth shut and (c) A person who can't resist looking. All three combined lead to this situation. But no factor in isolation is unforgivably malicious.

Arguably the most avoidable of these factors is the Doctor Who office releasing the information in the first place. Just saying...

Si.

[Perry Vale]

Of course another problem here is the added fact it was a two-parter. RTD was very shrewd in the past (in many ways), and more than once (IIRC) had press screenings that had some major parts removed (such as Rose appearing in Partners In Crime). However the structure of this two-parter really precluded this.

[Awesome Wells]

Spoilers are a bit like drink and drugs; in moderation, they're usually alright. If you have too many, you'll end up with a terminal case of disenchantment. A few teasers here and there are fine - they add to the excitement - but whole episode synopses take away the magic of actually watching the programme that has been spoiled; and that's unforgiveable, and why the Moff has been so rightly enraged.

Another problem with spoilers (and drugs) are to do with quality. Grade A pharmaceutical quality spoilers are bad for you, of course; but those that are cut with lies and speculation are even worse - "my friend's mate's sister's boyfriend's uncle's chiropracter's gimp has seen the rushes and episode nineteen is definitely called 'Doctor Who And The Cock Of Mortification' and it stars the ghost of Roger Delgado as Rassilon's mother" - and that's why the only real answer is to do what Zammo McGuire should have done, and Just Say No.

It's hard, though. Spoilers creep through the internet like a dog through a ditch, and although I agree with Si and don't think anybody does it maliciously, that desire to be seen as "in the know" on one person's part and the desire to know what those who want to be in the know know, or think they know* are strong things and difficult to avoid. Big, bad spoilers about the big bad of a series are always going to be precisely that, though; so while tiny ones are okay (unless they're wrong, like that one a few weeks ago that I couldn't help but gently hint was a little bit way off the mark, and it felt bad even doing that) anything bigger is like a huge shot of heroin to the head. Don't do it.


*Thanks, Bernard.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Speculation can be as bad really. Remember all the speculation after the Waters Of Mars that the Doctor had crossed the line, would go bad, and the Master would have to turn him back?

Waaay better than what we actually got in End of Time!

[Rob McCow]

We were denied Evil David Tennant Doctor - that could have been great.

[Si Hunt]

Except that time around "Waters of Mars" where he went a bit mad and told that boring woman to shoot herself. He soon snapped out of it though. Hurrah!

Si.

[Rob McCow]

That wasn't evil, that was pretentious.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Except that time around "Waters of Mars" where he went a bit mad and told that boring woman to shoot herself. He soon snapped out of it though. Hurrah!

After shagging the virgin queen ...