Rate and Discuss 6.7: A Good Man Goes To War

[Awesome Wells]

I think the only thing that didn't quite ring true with me, was arguably the main thrust of the episode - so when River berates the Doctor at the end, I can't say I'm really convinced the Doctor has been so bad that he's created himself a reputation as a great warrior. In fact, last night's episode was about the only time I can ever think of him really putting together an army of any sort - so is it really fair for him to be held accountable for galactic gossip & exaggeration?

I liked the philosophical undertones of that bit (the only part of River's pretentious orating that I thought really worked): are those who are deified within their own lifetimes in any way accountable for it? Is the Doctor fully aware of the effect he and his adventures have on the world around him? No, it seems not. Should he be - and should he take responsibility for how he and his actions are perceived? That's a different question entirely. Yes, it's understandable that Amy doesn't see the Doctor as a universally-known figure (healer or warrior) but the Doc himself must have some awareness of it, surely?

I've started rambling so I'll shush. But I agree about Matt's performance when Christina Chong carked it. In fact, he was thoroughly excellent throughout... possibly his best performance yet.

[Llordllama]

Well I enjoyed it - especially the opening 20 which I thought were stunningly epic, and then it all went off the boil a bit. The headless monks were a bit (if you'll pardon me) of a faceless one note bad guy, the "darkest day for the doctor" wasn't actually all that bad in the scheme of things (Amy's baby wasn't dropped from orbit into a nuclear reactor) and despite Melody Song Pond's future as a crook, she's helped out enough times to know that she'll not be all bad.

And then the Doctor buggered off on his own at the end for no reason at all?! Eh? Still enjoyable scifi, if just not quite the classic I was hoping for.

[Perry Vale]

Vastra "You're giving up? You never do that."

Doctor "Yeah, and don't you sometimes wish I did."

Some important dialogue there, perhaps, for later in this series.

[Awesome Wells]

Vastra "You're giving up? You never do that."

Doctor "Yeah, and don't you sometimes wish I did."

Some important dialogue there, perhaps, for later in this series.

Speaking of important things for later in the series, whose time has run out? Whose skeletal hand is clutching the sonic? Should this be in a different thread? Speculate.

[MinaHarker]

Amazing! So much going on! The pace was amazing and was genuinely shocked at the flesh baby. To lose your child, out of your arms, so quickly and utterly, is horrifying.

The episode was an exciting adventure and I loved it.

I admit things slowed down a bit too much at the death of the female soldier, but that's my only criticism.

Btw - rape and paedophilia? Really?

[egdcltd]

The bit I wasn't keen on was River Song being Amy & Rory's baby. Bit too predictable and soap-operaish.

Still, it's not the end of the series yet, so too soon to judge.

[Awesome Wells]

At least one of the myriad good ideas in A Good Man Goes To War was fifteen years in the making. Don't believe it? Click here.

[Andrew Curnow]

I liked the philosophical undertones of that bit (the only part of River's pretentious orating that I thought really worked): are those who are deified within their own lifetimes in any way accountable for it? Is the Doctor fully aware of the effect he and his adventures have on the world around him? No, it seems not. Should he be - and should he take responsibility for how he and his actions are perceived? That's a different question entirely. Yes, it's understandable that Amy doesn't see the Doctor as a universally-known figure (healer or warrior) but the Doc himself must have some awareness of it, surely?

I guess it's true to say that he's aware of it to the extent that he could do his 'stonehenge' bit last year, to all the assembled spaceships... but I don't think we've ever seen him 'bigging himself up' to the good guys have we? To get really 'anoraky' for a mo, just to pick one example the third Doctor's speech in Planet of the Daleks (the "when you get back to Skaro, tell them about the members of your crew who won't be coming home" bit) isn't a man who's keen to promote himself as a warrior. Yes, no question time and again he ends up battling foes (wasn't it Terrance Dicks who wittily observed that the Doctor always tries for a peaceful solution - but never gets one, because then you'd have a very dull show!) but what is River actually berating him for? And what alternative would she suggest? For him not to get involved in things?

Actually, I'm not sure that's criticism will actually be that relevant in the remainder of the season as it didn't really come across yesterday as fundamentally affecting the Doctor... but anyway, I think it's already been done (and actually done better) in Journey's End - true, that's an episode which I dislike more each time I watch it, but the key scene where the Doctor's friends all pop up, in one way or another armed and about to kill, does make the Doctor at least face the issue (even if it doesn't address it) and on that occasion feels to have come more 'organically' out of the story to that point, rather than just be suddenly hurled out as an accusation by a character popping up after the battle's all over.

Again, it didn't & doesn't really bother me, but I do think it's an interesting point for discussion.

[Andrew Curnow]

At least one of the myriad good ideas in A Good Man Goes To War was fifteen years in the making. Don't believe it? Click here.

Extraordinary! Who dug that out (and so quickly)?

[Si Hunt]

Apart from me being wrong on the whole "rape" thing, I can safely say "I told you so" to everyone who was arguing with me about the fact how Steven Moffat isn't as clever as he makes himself out to be and is actually just making things more complicated for the sake of making them so.

I really admire your optimism in hoping that effectively saying "Yeah but Steven Moffat's not very clever!" will be an effective diversion from the fact that you complained for pages last week about something that turned out not to even be true.

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

I have to say that, although I've still found this series a bit of a struggle, I've warmed a little to the earlier episodes now. Particularly, having moaned earlier on about there being just too many unexplained things hanging after the opening two-parter, I do at least now feel that the mysteries are all part of the same mystery. Up to last night/last week I felt we had the mystery of the pregnancy AND the mystery of the child in the suit AND the mystery of the eyepatch lady AND the mystery of who River Song is AND so on.... Now, although I don't know exactly what's going on, I am happier knowing it's all part of a whole rather than loads of randomly different mystery bits chucked in altogether.

Or I guess I'm saying Moffat is a sneaky guy, but I think he knows what he's doing - whether you like it or not is another matter...

[Perry Vale]

Interesting that Hugh Bonneville turned up seeing that Curse of the Black Spot was originally intended to be episode 9....

[Awesome Wells]

Extraordinary! Who dug that out (and so quickly)?

Some random geezer on Twitter last night. Tom Spilsbury then picked up on it and I saw it on his feed.

[Stuart Wallis]

Apart from me being wrong on the whole "rape" thing

Fair play Si...

I liked the philosophical undertones of that bit (the only part of River's pretentious orating that I thought really worked): are those who are deified within their own lifetimes in any way accountable for it? Is the Doctor fully aware of the effect he and his adventures have on the world around him? No, it seems not. Should he be - and should he take responsibility for how he and his actions are perceived? That's a different question entirely. Yes, it's understandable that Amy doesn't see the Doctor as a universally-known figure (healer or warrior) but the Doc himself must have some awareness of it, surely?

After Boom Town and last year's finale, he might have had a hint. Having said that, the Space/time continuum is a rather big place, and even given his having visited a few places now, and the Chinese whispers-led mythology that might have gone on in some parts, there's presumably places where he's never going to have any effect at all. It's not everywhere he goes that he sets out to make an impression after all.

The episode then. The Doctor's running off without Amy and Rory with no logical explanation and River's faffing around before she got to the previously predicted not-so big reveal gave the ending a sense of anti-climax; I agree they could have ended this half of the season a week early, as that was a proper cliffhanger. What we got was a convenient place from which to carry on next time, and no more. Hardly earthshattering. Even the promise of Nazis wasn't it, since we've known about them since Christmas. And the headless monks' vertebrae sticking out between their shoulders was arguably a bit gruesome for the timeslot. (And how did they remain active after decapitation?)

Other than that, they're the only real complaints that come to mind. Apart from the trailer suggesting that the Cybermen were going to be in it a wee bit more. To continue. Rory was most impressive, particularly when facing the Cybermen and meeting Baby Melody. Also good to see Amy genuinely and realistically scared without resorting to screaming. Good Sontaran, fine Silurian, excellent effects, Matt's about arrived by now. And we're starting to get a few answers as well.



POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT








I think we've got James Corden coming back later in the year, so I think that might wind up the Silence time machine, and the question of who might want to use Melody as a weapon, assuming it isn't the obvious answer ie. Hitler.

[Stuart Wallis]

Interesting that Hugh Bonneville turned up seeing that Curse of the Black Spot was originally intended to be episode 9....

Which might explain why they couldn't get the rest of his crew together.

[Simon R]

I wasn't keen on the Tardis corridor set being rehashed and re-lit as part of Demon's Run or wherever it was.

[Rob McCow]

7/10 - pretty good, looked damned expensive, but I'd rather have had an episode each for the Silurian and Sontaran characters, then a two-parter where he goes after the Cyber-fleet!

[FlyingBeastie]

The Doctor dashing off was a bit undramatic, too.

It was practically done in the background, I agree with you there.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

And at this point, I understand what Alex meant about not feeling so strongly cos he's not so ultimately invested in the series. Cos I've now taken on that same attitude, because my expectations for anything Moffat takes a part in are below the floor.

I hope this is true, it'll certainly make things a bit more peaceful around here

RTD sytematically destroyed any hopes and dreams and crushed my spirit within his 5 year tenure that I reached the same point and stopped particularly caring too. Now I watch it with a much more philosophical attitude and, even though I think it's now much better than it was during the RTD era and even though I do enjoy it most weeks, I don't mind so much when a duff episode comes along, because I'm just not that invested in it anymore.

Although having said that, I still had to wait for RTD to leave before being able to enjoy it again kicked in, so I guess you're in for a long wait

P.S. To answer your question about the creepy pedo vibe. No.

[FlyingBeastie]

Rory "The 12th Cyber Legion monitors this entire quadrant. You hear everything."

But did they really need to be massacred? And it also goes back to my point that this "plan/operation" is quite sloppy if they wanted to get away with it privately.

3 weeks to a month after last week's cliffhanger. At Demon's Run

I meant setting- where is Demon's Run? What chronological period?

Also good to see Amy genuinely and realistically scared without resorting to screaming.

Really? She was quite stony for the majority of the episode and actually screamed bloody murder for Rory... offscreen. In my opinion, I think Karen Gillan's acting has become weaker as the series has gone on. In fact, my friend who I recently introduced to DW asked me if she's not "power posing" in every scene she's in (essentially, mugging for the camera)

Also, I hugely disagree about Matt Smith's performance. Once again, he's off in the background somewhere (this show should change it's title from Doctor Who to Mr & Mrs Pond at this point) and when he had his moment, I didn't buy it. We actually had a viewing party for this one and no one was convinced that Smith was at all menacing or lethal.

We went back comparing how at some point all of the previous actors who played the Doctor exuded some level of menace- but Smith? He's not really there yet.


Re: Hanson, Yeah, it might settle down, but it won't stop me from making fun of how absolutely naff everything's become/ probably is going to get even more

I think there's only one episode I'll enjoy coming up and it'll probably be the one another boardie just mentioned in spoiler caps. I'm from the US, so I dunno how you guys generally feel about that particular actor, but I quite enjoyed him in that other episode. Especially considering that was the only episode last season that had any real characters in it!


As for the creepy pedo vibe, maybe it's just me then, but I'm getting a big Michael Jackson vibe from Moffat in terms of how he fleshes out the whole Doctor/companion thing.

He's done it with almost all of the female companions we've seen in his stories. The frame is this:

Young girl meets the Doctor. He goes away. Comes back when she's all nubile and hot and promises/actually takes her along with him.

As seen with:

Renette
River Song
Amy Pond
That chick who just died in this last episode... Bucketface something

[Zbigniev Hamson]

When/where is Marinus?

And I think the main question about the Cybermen is, who on Earth are these Cybermen?

[Perry Vale]

I meant setting- where is Demon's Run?

Twenty thousand light years away from the 12th Cyber Legion.

What chronological period?

I don't really see why that would be so important to you, or relevant, but the obvious answer seems to be "now". As it usually is in any Doctor Who that doesn't have an onscreen caption to say otherwise.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Anglican space marines would suggest it's in the future sometime surely?

[Perry Vale]

Anglican space marines would suggest it's in the future sometime surely?

You could be right, like I said it's not something I found very important to the story. In that case, "now" could be the 22nd century they were in at the end of The Almost People.

[Larry]

But did they really need to be massacred?

yes they did - since Doctor Who, returned the Doctor has become a much darker character a man who would destroy a whole planet and his own people would think nothing of killing a few thousand Cybermen. But the whole point of destroying the fleet was to send out a clear message to the people who had Amy this is what I will do to those who hurt the people I care about.