Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 61
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newtown, Australia
    Posts
    905

    Default 'Classics' you just don't get

    Are there any stories that are labelled as 'Classics' that just make you go... "Meh?"

    For me, it's The Caves of Androzani. Don't get me wrong- it's excellent drama. Top drawer writing, excellent performances, slick direction. It just isn't Doctor Who. It's an anathema to what Doctor Who is all about (so brilliant summarised by Craig Ferguson as the triumph of "intellect and romance over brute force and cynicism"), with everyone except Peri and Timmin dying.

    The high point is, of course, the Doctor's sacrifice, but this is my other bugbear with the story. It continues the main problem of the Davison era of having the Doctor as the universe's personal whipping boy. The Fifth Doctor was really starting to fight back against the universe in this season and his finale seems a far greater betrayal of that than the master manipulator Seventh Doctor being gunned down randomly.

    What story is it for you?

    Oooh, coconut macaroons!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sawbridgeworth
    Posts
    25,127

    Default

    Great idea for a thread.

    "Pyramids of Mars". I can see why people like it; initially it's fine, dark and brooding. Some great lines of dialogue. The mummies are sort of memorable.

    But Part 4 it just all goes to pot! The sets run out, it all descends into a lame game of puzzles and the whole thing is resolved by a gizmo from the TARDIS. Say what you like about "Time and the Rani", but at least it had a proper conclusion!

    Si.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bracknell, Berks
    Posts
    29,744

    Default

    Can you guess? Can you?

    Oh you can!

    Yes it's...

    Blink.
    Like the planet Calufrax, it's paralysingly dull, boring and tedious... drags on and on not being scary or particularly clever. The love relationship is so painfully signposted in the obvious names of participants that it'd be more of a shock if they hadn't got together. The Weeping Angels are just lumps of stone and I just watched the time tick past while the episode played out and have no particular inclination to go back and see it ever again.

    Pyramids would be next on my list!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    4,996

    Default

    Midnight.

    Honestly, this story is just awful. I genuinely don't get why people like it so much. RTD tried his hand at a psychological thriller and did it extremely badly.

    I've heard people talk about the "wonderful dialogue". Well, this is an example of that so-called "wonderful dialogue":

    "Roast beef. Bananas. The Medusa Cascade. [Beat] BANG! RoseTylerMarthaJonesDonnaNobleTARDIS! [beat] Shamble-bobble-dibble-dooble. [beat] Oh, Doctor, you're so handsome. Yes, I am, thank you. A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J-K-L-M-N-O—"

    Which, let's be honest, is a load of purile nonsense. Coupled with horrendous overacting from both David Tennant and Lesley Sharp, this story is, in my humble opinion, truly dreadful.

    Watchers in the Fourth Dimension: A Doctor Who Podcast
    Three Americans and a Brit attempt to watch their way through the entirety of Doctor Who
    ----
    Latest Episode: The WOTAN Clan, discussing The War Machines
    Available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Podbean
    Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @watchers4d

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sawbridgeworth
    Posts
    25,127

    Default

    I completely agree with Ant (again!). "Midnight" is terrible. I think we were supposed to think it was clever, all that repeating business. But this overlooks the fact that you actually have to sit through 20 minutes of two people repeating nonsense at each other. Then everyone shouts at each other for the rest of it, like a bad episode of Eastenders (coincidentally, Lyndsey Coulson is in it, she must have cursed her luck). I don't want to sit and watch a group of unlikeable people hollaring abuse at each other, even if it's "justified" in the plot. Then they all drag the Doctor off the ship, which is frankly unpleasant. And none of it is explained other than there being "something" outside.

    The whole thing frankly comes over as an excuse to fill up an episode when they had no money. It's like they made it up as they filmed it!

    Si.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
    Posts
    17,652

    Default

    Bah - I really enjoyed Midnight. I thought it had loads of atmosphere and was a great counterpoint to Voyage of The Damned. Best watched in the dark, with the sound set to 'very loud', preferably around midnight.

    Now, lots of people hold a flag for 'The Tenth Planet' but I don't see why. Yes, it has numerous 'firsts' including the regeneration and the first appearance Cybermen, but it's still a dull story.

    All the Cybermen do is turn up very slowly to stand about in the base. The whole of episode 3 is spent worrying about General Cutler's son, whom we haven't met. Everyone is so serious and determined. Even William Hartnell falls asleep for a week. And the science is even more appalling than usual!

    There's another important first too, our first 'Rubbish Base Commander who Doesn't Listen To The Doctor and Cracks Under Pressure'. These will become a mainstay of the Troughton era.

    On the plus side, I reckon these Cybermen look fantastic and their voices are brilliant. But far from being a classic, I think this is one of the biggest stinkers of the Hartnell era. It's not as hopelessly inept as The Keys of Marinus or The Chase, but neither is it as entertaining.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sileby near Loughborough (Leics)
    Posts
    601

    Default

    The Shakespeare Crud (sic)
    So many knowing thespian winks to the camera that the fourth walls isn't so much breached as shattered beyond repair. Honestly, Carry on at your Convenience had more convincing acting too. Couple that with the Carrier bag Witches three oh ho ho HO! It's just all so sodding panto.

    I know it’s supposed to be a jolly comedy romp, perhaps lightly mocking the earlier all too serious historical, but it fails as an episode of Doctor Who to engage me and it fails as 42 minutes of my life I won’t ever get back.

    I mean don't get me wrong, the Next Doctor is panto (mostly) done right within the show, but this is the only episode of the series classic and current that I just cannot/will not ever rewatch.

    Oh wait, there’s The Wasp up the Unicorn as well…
    Creator of Doctor WHeasel and sometime political radical

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    4,996

    Default

    So basically, Gaz... what you're saying is that you don't particularly like the writing of Gareth Roberts?

    Watchers in the Fourth Dimension: A Doctor Who Podcast
    Three Americans and a Brit attempt to watch their way through the entirety of Doctor Who
    ----
    Latest Episode: The WOTAN Clan, discussing The War Machines
    Available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Podbean
    Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @watchers4d

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Exeter, UK
    Posts
    1,318

    Default

    I'm with Rob on The Tenth Planet. In fact, anything touched by the hands of Kit Pedlar or Christopher "Hamilton" Bidmead - they both tried to make Doctor Who into a hard sf series (instead of the delightful fantasy they inherited) and they both ballsed it up with some of the most cock-handed (sic) science ever repeated in the show's name.

    What really got my goat was watching the build-up to the most successful Doctor of all time's regeneration, and finding a story in which the entire fate of the universe was hanging on a bunch of old men who were keeping it going by saying numbers out loud. My belief was well and truly beggared (sic).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sawbridgeworth
    Posts
    25,127

    Default

    "The Lodger"! It was just the new "Fear Her" wasn't it? Too brightly lit to be scary so what was left? The Doctor playing football. At length.

    James Cordon is a comedy funny man, and I'm sure he's great. A good dramatic actor he is not and has never claimed to be, which is why he has absolutely zero chemistry with his love-interest here. Some of the Doctors dialogue was quite witty, but apart from that we have a rather odd woodenly-played romance and I couldn't even begin to tell you what was going on with the TARDIS in the attic and the thing where they had to kiss to save the Universe (or something?). Wasn't this another thing that hasn't been explained yet?

    And there's a bleeding sequel on the wind! God save us!

    Si.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Exeter, UK
    Posts
    1,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Si Hunt View Post
    Wasn't this another thing that hasn't been explained yet?

    And there's a bleeding sequel on the wind!
    In an ideal world, the one would be connected with the other.

    Somehow, I don't think this is that world...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Are any new series stories really considered classics as yet?

    For me it's stories such as Spearhead from Space, The Silurians, Inferno or just about any early Pertwee story. I find them very dull and boring
    I’m being extremely clever up here and there’s no one to stand around looking impressed! What’s the point in having you all?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Airstrip One
    Posts
    4,760

    Default

    Revelation Of The Daleks - dreadfully dull, no matter how many times I give it a chance, or however much Saward tries to write Robert Holmes style "double acts". And Alexei Sayle makes Hale & Pace look Shakespearian by comparison.

    Inferno - worst story of S7, even if you take out the boring and tedious middle four episodes.

    The Deadly Assassin - bad idea to lose the companion in the first place, IMO, and at least one episode of padding.
    “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” - Gutle Schnaper Rothschild

  14. #14

    Default

    *SWEARWORDS OF DESPAIR*

  15. #15

    Default

    *wearily* Has somebody, somewhere, really classed Midnight, The Shakespeare Code and The Lodger as "classics"?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    4,996

    Default

    I've seen Midnight in quite a few people's TOP TEN OF ALL TIME lists on various places on the internet. Hence why I spoke out against it!

    Watchers in the Fourth Dimension: A Doctor Who Podcast
    Three Americans and a Brit attempt to watch their way through the entirety of Doctor Who
    ----
    Latest Episode: The WOTAN Clan, discussing The War Machines
    Available on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Podbean
    Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @watchers4d

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newtown, Australia
    Posts
    905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Wells View Post
    *wearily* Has somebody, somewhere, really classed Midnight, The Shakespeare Code and The Lodger as "classics"?
    Midnight has been praised from the rooftops from many quarters.

    Oooh, coconut macaroons!

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    2,642

    Default

    James Cordon is a comedy funny man, and I'm sure he's great
    He's not.
    Dennis, Francois, Melba and Smasher are competing to see who can wine and dine Lola Whitecastle and win the contract to write her memoirs. Can Dennis learn how to be charming? Can Francois concentrate on anything else when food is on the table? Will Smasher keep his temper under control?

    If only the 28th century didn't keep popping up to get in Dennis's way...

    #dammitbrent



    The eleventh annual Brenty Four serial is another Planet Skaro exclusive. A new episode each day until Christmas in the Brenty Four-um.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
    Posts
    17,652

    Default

    *wearily* Has somebody, somewhere, really classed Midnight, The Shakespeare Code and The Lodger as "classics"?
    Hey! I watch Confidential! They're all classics, even The Lodger! Gareth Roberts said so! The Lodger is based on a classic Doctor Who Magazine comic strip. Classic!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sawbridgeworth
    Posts
    25,127

    Default

    *wearily* Has somebody, somewhere, really classed Midnight, The Shakespeare Code and The Lodger as "classics"?
    Well, yes.

    "Midnight" popped up in many peoples Top 10 of stories of all time on the other thread, and in this weeks Radio Times Moffat says that "The Lodger" was the big hit of last season.

    Si.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bracknell, Berks
    Posts
    29,744

    Default

    and in this weeks Radio Times Moffat says that "The Lodger" was the big hit of last season.
    It was? I must get with the programme.

    Oh and Duncan, I agree about The Deadly Assassin. What a dreary load of nonsense it is. Aside from episode 4 which is very funny.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sittingbourne, Kent, UK
    Posts
    2,403

    Default

    Spearhead From Space.

    Yes, it's by Robert Holmes. Yes, it bring the series to colour. Yes, it's our first look at the Third Doctor. Yes, it has the iconic 'window dummies' scene. But....

    The sound quality is dire. The pacing is way off, and the presence of a bit of a battle between UNIT and the Autons doesn't alter the fact that there is an awful lot of people sitting or standing around talking about things. The Invasion was twice as long but also twice as engaging. When the Cyberman invasion began the Doctor and his friends were caught up in it, with the Doctor apparently coming under the influence of the hypnotic signal and Captain Turner bursting in to report seeing the Cybermen coming out of the sewers. When the Auton attack begins a bunch of extras get gunned down and we cut to the Brig taking a telephone call about it, then calmly walking off to talk to his boss and get some troops. When the Doctor realises the Cybermen's plans he explains them to everyone and describes how he will resist. When the Doctor figured out the Nestene's plan is anyone's guess, as is what the machine he and Liz spend an age building is for until he goes and uses it. While the UNIT forces engage the Cybermen, the Doctor and Vaughan fight their way past Cybermen until they reach their objective, whereupon they are ambushed by more Cybermen, Vaughan is killed, and the Doctor has to retreat and leave the blowing up of the transmitter to UNIT. While UNIT engages the Autons, the Doctor has very little trouble getting right to the control centre, whereupon he is not set upon by Autons but has time to wave his silly pointy thing at Channing and calmly tell him he can detroy them. Then a silly big green tentacle attacks him while Liz does some quick work with a screwdriver.

    Like The Tenth Planet, Spearhead's reputation seems to hang on it being the first colour story, the first Third Doctor story and its unique 'all on film' nature, rather than it actually being very good on its own merits.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Si Hunt View Post
    Well, yes.

    "Midnight" popped up in many peoples Top 10 of stories of all time on the other thread, and in this weeks Radio Times Moffat says that "The Lodger" was the big hit of last season.

    Si.
    That doesn't make them "classics". Even though I think that the new series (well, definitely seasons 1, 2, 5 and 6, anyway) is better than anything from the old days, I would hesitate to refer to any episode as "classic" because in terms of artistic work it means having enduring significance ... and that can only be judged after a certain passage of time. Besides, Midnight was average, The Shakespeare Code was mediocre and The Lodger had James Corden in it. Less "classic" than the biscuit bar.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sawbridgeworth
    Posts
    25,127

    Default

    That's being picky though. The general idea of the thread was stories that other people think are great, and you don't get why. Besides, I'd say putting a story in your Top 10 of ALL TIME Doctor Who stories is pretty much tantamount to saying "it's a classic" isn't it?

    And you can judge something to have "enduring significance" after six years, surely?

    Si.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    4,613

    Default

    For me it's The Curse of Fenric.

    Again, it's lauded by most fans as the pinnacle of the McCoy era and by some as one of the best the Classic series had to offer, but I just don't see what all the fuss is about!

    On paper it probably is the best McCoy story but I'd much rather watch Time and the Rani any day! There's some good characterisation and some fine performances, but by this point I'd actually grown tired of all the Seveth Doctor manipulation stuff so the climax was actually quite annoying.

    The best thing about it is Marek Anton...

Similar Threads

  1. Modern Day Christmas Classics
    By Si Hunt in forum Music
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 22nd Dec 2010, 5:35 PM
  2. Doctor Who Classics (new comic - cover pic)
    By Nathan in forum The Fiction Factory
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 20th Oct 2007, 6:03 PM