Rate And Discuss 6.9: Night Terrors

[Dino]

"Is this the scariest Doctor Who yet?" said the downmarket TV listing magazine.

Well...

[Andrew Curnow]

Well... I don't know about that, but it was (IMHO) a definite step up from last week, I very much enjoyed it!

[Alex]

And Gatiss is back! I'm a big fan of The Unquiet Dead but was, like many it seems, really let down by the other two episodes he wrote, but this was a superb tale. A lovely one off with a great set up, an incredibly creepy atmosphere, and some quite terrifying 'villains', as it were. It was beautifully shot, superbly performed, and all in all just a great little story. A very solid 8/10 from me.

[Dino]

I worked out where Amy and Rory went. But I didn't work out the main twist.
I may have nightmares after being reminded of the BBC series "Outcasts" due to the Dad being the main actor from it!
It wasn't bad. I voted 7.

[Dr Judson]

Same as me, I figured out that they were in the cupboard, just not the doll's house.

That was a fun, spooky little adventure. 8/10 from me.

Most Creepy Moments: The landlord sinking into his carpet and the doll transformations.

[Dr Judson]

Another creepy moment: the ending nursery rhyme.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Niggle time: What exactly was the great power that managed to amplify the boy's plea for help, and which also put all the scary stuff in the cupboard, in a miniature form, and animated them and etc? I suppose the implication was that it was the boy himself, due to his alien-ness as a Tesla or whatever they were called. Except that the Doctor never actually said they could do anything like that, they just blend in and get adopted. I don't really see how useful it would be to blend into some other species, but then go mad with incredibly dangerous telekinetic space powers that kill your neighbours.

Apart from that though (and the Ponds' unbelievable continuance of not giving a stuff about where their baby is) it was a pretty good little story. Sort of like Fear Her, but actually decent.

[egdcltd]

Favourite line: "We're dead. Again."

[Andrew Curnow]

and the Ponds' unbelievable continuance of not giving a stuff about where their baby is

Agreed - I thought the episode itself was excellent, well-acted, well-written, it looked great... but, particularly in a story about a child, Amy & Rory are now very hard to believe in as real people because there is no reference at all to their own situation.

Before any bright spark pops up to point it out, yes I know this was originally episode 3 but was swapped with the pirate one, but surely one of the many tasks of the Executives is to consider the effect of such things as swapping episodes. Even just a bit of ADR over a longshot at the end, along the lines of "At least we've been able to help someone's child" would have helped.

BTW, given it was originally episode 3 do you think the Doctor's comment at the end "back together again in the flesh" was deliberate?

[Zbigniev Hamson]

The Doctor's obituary notice is the new Amy pregnancy scan.

That is all.

[egdcltd]

The Doctor's obituary notice is the new Amy pregnancy scan.

That is all.

It probably was Amy's pregnancy scan originally if the episode was moved.

[Alex]

Before any bright spark pops up to point it out, yes I know this was originally episode 3 but was swapped with the pirate one, but surely one of the many tasks of the Executives is to consider the effect of such things as swapping episodes. Even just a bit of ADR over a longshot at the end, along the lines of "At least we've been able to help someone's child" would have helped.

Well we don't know how much time has passed since the events of Lets Kill Hitler, so perhaps they've come to terms with it during that time. </a bit of a cop out answer, but hey, it works for me>

I do see where you're coming from, but in some ways it doesn't bother me because a) It's not as if they wanted a child, b) Amy only knew she was pregnant right at the end, and c) she spent so little time with Melody that there wasn't exactly much time to become attached. I would've expected more of a reaction in the last episode, true, but as they've discovered they've known their daughter all of their lives (as well as how their daughter turns out in the future) I guess they've found it easier to come to terms with than you might in a more normal situation.

[Darren]

3 out of 10

Some nice ideas poorly implemented.

The set up was good with a creepy atmosphere and dingy setting (I thought RTD had patented the chav council estate cliche). The idea of childhood fears and the solution of locking them away in a wardrobe was good. Being shrunk and stuck in a dollshouse is a fabulous idea. The dolls were scary and Daniel Mays gave a good performance.
But despite the atmosphere and ideas it didn't work:

The Doctor picks up the "distress call" from across the vastness of time and space, pinpointing a London council estate on Earth. And then fails to find the flat instantly. Presumeably so they can introduce a couple of ciphers, sorry, secondary characters.

Was there a point to making the landlord an arsehole other than to have viewers cheering when he got sucked into the floor? And why was he?

What was behind the rubbish and why did the little old lady get sucked in?

The monsters/evil..Exactly where did it come from again? Why does it's influence stretch beyond the flat and why haven't people vanished before?

The answer to the story and origin of the little boy was suddenly figured out by the Doctor and explained to the viewer in roughly 30 seconds.

Sensers. Eh? This alien locked randomly onto a couple on Earth who can never have kids, set up a perception filter (the two most overused words since Moffat took over) and made them think it was their son. Okay, does that extend to anyone who comes into contact with them; close family, school, etc? Has it generated a fake birth certificate, medical records?

And then it got scared somehow. Of everything. A species which apparantly crosses space to find a home.

And yet another reminder of the Doctor's imminent death was shoe horned in at the end because we are all idiots who can't retain basic arc points.

Think I'll watch Ant and Dec next week.

[Andrew Curnow]

Well we don't know how much time has passed since the events of Lets Kill Hitler, so perhaps they've come to terms with it during that time. </a bit of a cop out answer, but hey, it works for me>

I guess it's a matter of opinion. And I have to admit, if I was a kid I'm sure I wouldn't notice, or care at all - certainly, back in 1982 I wasn't bothered about the brisk way Adric's passing was dealt with at the start of Timeflight, it's only as an adult viewer it perhaps feels a bit lacking and unrealistic.

Next week's looks quite Amy-heavy though, so I would certainly expect that to touch on it.

[Andrew Curnow]

Was there a point to making the landlord an arsehole other than to have viewers cheering when he got sucked into the floor? And why was he?

That, at least, is explainable I think - George had seen the landlord being mean to his Dad earlier on. As to other people having disappeared, I presume at least some had, to account for the number of dolls in the house when Amy & Rory arrived.

[Awesome Wells]

Agreed - I thought the episode itself was excellent, well-acted, well-written, it looked great... but, particularly in a story about a child, Amy & Rory are now very hard to believe in as real people because there is no reference at all to their own situation.

Before any bright spark pops up to point it out, yes I know this was originally episode 3 but was swapped with the pirate one, but surely one of the many tasks of the Executives is to consider the effect of such things as swapping episodes. Even just a bit of ADR over a longshot at the end, along the lines of "At least we've been able to help someone's child" would have helped.

BTW, given it was originally episode 3 do you think the Doctor's comment at the end "back together again in the flesh" was deliberate?

I think there was some ADR over the scene at the end with them sitting together on the wall, backs to camera ... and as far as I'm aware - again, I might be wrong - the last scene was recorded later, after the swap in the schedule.

As for the lack of baby references, I think that Alex hit it on the head both here viz. the passing of time and in the LKH thread when he talked about them growing up with Mels as a friend ... but additionally, Amy and Rory are not "real" - these are not ordinary people living ordinary lives. Yes, there could POSSIBLY have been more emotion about it last week, but Amy and Rory have been through so much - actual lives and deaths - that the things which apply in everyday life don't necessarily apply to theirs. Especially as regards to a pregnancy where the conception was the only ordinary thing about it. Amy didn't consciously carry the baby to term and - unless I'm mistaken - never even held the real Melody because she, like her momma, had been replaced by a Ganger. Rory never met his daughter as an infant at all.

Or am I forgetting bits from AGMGTW?

Anyway, just thoughts. I can't say anything about Night Terrors because I've forgotten it. All I remember is liking it, but not as much as the episodes on either side of it. I'm sure my review's online somewhere.

[duncan]

That's more like it! 8/10 from me based on my daughters comments.

"Those dolls creep me out"

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I was hoping for a bit more really. The premise seemed interesting - scary kid's bedroom where all the scary things come to life. But all we really got was some dolls, a glass eye, and a lift sound effect. It could have been crammed full with iconic imagery, but it wasn't. I was still waiting for it to get started when I looked and noticed there were only 5 minutes left.

I'm having a bit of difficulty trying to come up with a score for this one

[MinaHarker]

Well we don't know how much time has passed since the events of Lets Kill Hitler, so perhaps they've come to terms with it during that time. </a bit of a cop out answer, but hey, it works for me>

I do see where you're coming from, but in some ways it doesn't bother me because a) It's not as if they wanted a child, b) Amy only knew she was pregnant right at the end, and c) she spent so little time with Melody that there wasn't exactly much time to become attached. I would've expected more of a reaction in the last episode, true, but as they've discovered they've known their daughter all of their lives (as well as how their daughter turns out in the future) I guess they've found it easier to come to terms with than you might in a more normal situation.

While I agree that they have had time to come to terms with it, I have to disagree with the "attachment" idea in point c. It appeared in A Good Man Goes To War that Amy and Melody had been together for some weeks (and that Melody was replaced with a ganger right near the end - otherwise why keep Amy around?)

Besides, it many cases it takes only minutes for a woman to bond with her child with a strong and fierce rush of love. It's one of the reasons that adoptions arranged pre-birth involve taking the child from the mother ASAP.

[Andrew Curnow]

Amy didn't consciously carry the baby to term and - unless I'm mistaken - never even held the real Melody because she, like her momma, had been replaced by a Ganger. Rory never met his daughter as an infant at all.

We-ell, I don't think it's made explicit in AGMGTW when the switch happens, so when Amy's holding Melody at the very start, that could be the real one or the ganger. But either way, the point is surely that at the time they THINK she's the real one.

I'm not saying we want weeks of angst-ridden baby-separation emotion (frankly it was bad enough with the Doctor moping around after losing Rose in the early part of season 3) but... arguably, if you can't follow these things through don't do them! Having River suddenly turn out to be Amy & Rory's daughter, who's then kidnapped, may well look good on paper - but the fact that there seems no emotion of any sort at all anywhere in the scenario just makes it fall a bit flat.

But, again, if I was 9 I wouldn't care two hoots about whether Amy should be upset or not, I'd just want the monsters to turn up!

[Ian Lethbridge-Stewart]

Loved the "7 keys to Doomsday" reference!

[Alex]

While I agree that they have had time to come to terms with it, I have to disagree with the "attachment" idea in point c. It appeared in A Good Man Goes To War that Amy and Melody had been together for some weeks (and that Melody was replaced with a ganger right near the end - otherwise why keep Amy around?)

Besides, it many cases it takes only minutes for a woman to bond with her child with a strong and fierce rush of love. It's one of the reasons that adoptions arranged pre-birth involve taking the child from the mother ASAP.

Ah, that's a very good point, I'd forgotten that Amy and had spent so much time with Melody in AGMGTW.

[Anthony Williams]

I may well have missed the explanation for this, having seen it at a convention, with VERY poor sound - but was it ever explained where the boy came from?

[Awesome Wells]

I may well have missed the explanation for this, having seen it at a convention, with VERY poor sound - but was it ever explained where the boy came from?

He was a SPACE ALIEN from SPACE.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

He was a SPACE ALIEN from SPACE.

More specifically he was a Tenso. His latched onto Alex and Mary because they really wanted to have kids and so has taken on human form as result. This explains why his psychic abiliities were able to create "real" monsters from his anxiety and also why his cry for help was picked up by the psychic paper in another galaxy.