A Radical Idea - Should We Go Back To 25 Minute Episodes?

[egdcltd]

Might depend on which country you were in at the time. The only video releases of The Deadly Assassin in the UK were in episodic format, although I think it had a USA release a few years earlier, and I don't know what format that one was in.

I think The Deadly Assassin was episodic, I was mostly mentioning it to show how contrived the cliffhanger was in that case. I think Pyramids of Mars was played right through, and the cliffhanger sections weren't that noticeable.

I do miss the old style episode format though. Along with a bunch of other things from the old series.

[Si Hunt]

If you split a single 45 minute episode into 2 parts then you have to split the story with some kind of cliffhanger.

But I'm not talking about splitting an existing 45 minute episode in two! You'd write the story to fit the 2 episode structure. I think that's what you're not getting. It's why Season 22 doesn't work in its 25 minute form; because the episodes were written as 45 minuters, then just sliced in half.

Si.

[Awesome Wells]

I agree with everything the person whom Logo has quoted says except "relatively expensive". At a million quid an episode, I'd say that was pretty pricey for a British TV show.

[Alex Me]

Nope, keep the 45 minute episodes. I love the standaloneness of most of the new series episodes, I can sit down and watch one episode without having to worry about watching any others to get the full story.

[Jason Thompson]

But I'm not talking about splitting an existing 45 minute episode in two! You'd write the story to fit the 2 episode structure. I think that's what you're not getting.

I am getting that, thank you. Yes, you write it to the structure, but that structure is still, at its most basic, a story that takes 45 minutes to tell in full with a division in the middle. Now your writer, given that structure, can write some superb episodes where episode 1 builds naturally and sensibly to a cliffhanger, and episode 2 takes us on from that dramatic event to the resolution of the story. Equally he can write the basic plot and stick a contrived thing in the middle to split it, such that a cliffhanger comes out of nowhere and is promptly dealt with ten seconds into part 2 so he can get on with telling the full story. Classic Who has examples of both of these.

Season 22's episodes don't work very well when split becuase they were never written to be split, as you say. My point is that writing a story to be split does not, in any way, 'force' the writer to make a sensible and smooth progression to a cliffhanger and then follow on with the plot. All it forces him to do is write a story that is divided into parts.

It is not the episode length but the quality of the writing that matters.

[Rob McCow]

No, they should do 10x 60 minute episodes a year.

[Andrew Curnow]

the classic W that ? Dennis Spooner, or was it Unlce Tewwy, once talked about

It was Dennis Spooner, in DWM 56 (I think). That was a great little interview, not sure why it was so memorable but it clearly was. I remember 'spotting' that W format in shows after reading it!!

[Jon Masters]

It was Dennis Spooner, in DWM 56 (I think). That was a great little interview, not sure why it was so memorable but it clearly was. I remember 'spotting' that W format in shows after reading it!!

It was a good interview for us to remember it so well. And I like spotting Ws too !!

[Perry Vale]

If I was asked this back in 2005, I would have said to change it back to the 25 minute episode.

I agree with this.

But not this...

I don't think the cliffhangers really worked in the two part stories of the Eccleston series.

The resolution to The Empty Child is still probably my favourite of all, and still makes me laugh every time.

However, I do much prefer the 45 minute format these day, but, being a fan of the cliffhanger, i would like to see things done the way we saw cliffhangers used in shows such as The Time Tunnel, Lost in SPace and more recently, Quantum Leap.

Basically, the story concludes and the regulars go off somewhere else and we see the first few seconds of the next story which ends on a cliffhanger. It's been done a few times with Matt Smith such as the lead into Victory of the Daleks last year.

I'd also be happy with this, but am generally happy with the way things are.

[SiHart]

The cliffhanger to Bad Wolf is one of the very best in the series' history. A real "NO! Don't stop NOW!" moment.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

The cliffhanger to Bad Wolf is one of the very best in the series' history. A real "NO! Don't stop NOW!" moment.

Indeed it was. Possibly *the* moment of that series when we realise that Eccleston really is the Doctor.

I realise I can't change my vote in the poll but I agree with Steve that a run of 60 minute episodes (as opposed to occasional specials) would be a worthwhile experiment. I suspect I'd end up preferring the 45 minute format but it would be interesting to see.

[duncan]

I agree that the cliffhanger to Bad Wolf was a good one, but I can't agree with the resolution to The Empty Child. It's one of my least favourites and came across as if nobody on the show knew how a good cliffhanger should work. It may not have been too bad had we got the opening titles before the Doctor yelled "Go to your room". A resolution should come after the opening sequence to tantalise us a bit more. That had been sorted out by the time Rise of the Cybermen was aired the following year.

[Awesome Wells]

Indeed it was. Possibly *the* moment of that series when we realise that Eccleston really is the Doctor.

Wow. Did Eccleston really only convince you with 45 minutes of his time as the Doc left? He had me at "Run for your life!" in Rose.

[Rob McCow]

Didn't they resolve the cliffhanger to Age of Steel in about three seconds before the main titles as well? The memory cheats, but it could be my memory that's cheating.

I think the 60 minute format could give the stories a little more room to breath, although with the specials that meant filling each episode with as much guff as possible, so I'm not certain it would work.

[duncan]

Didn't they resolve the cliffhanger to Age of Steel in about three seconds before the main titles as well? The memory cheats, but it could be my memory that's cheating.

No, from what I recall, the opening titles crashed in at the same point the last episode ended. The resolve of the Doctor using the crystal from the Tardis happened afterwards.

[Andrew Curnow]

I agree that the cliffhanger to Bad Wolf was a good one, but I can't agree with the resolution to The Empty Child. It's one of my least favourites and came across as if nobody on the show knew how a good cliffhanger should work. It may not have been too bad had we got the opening titles before the Doctor yelled "Go to your room". A resolution should come after the opening sequence to tantalise us a bit more. That had been sorted out by the time Rise of the Cybermen was aired the following year.

I disagree, I'm with Perry in that the "Go to your room" resolution is a particular favourite (mainly for the "Those would have been rubbish last words" punchline). And I think the cliffhanger serves its purpose by getting you to tune in next week - you then want to dump it as quickly as possible in the new episode, and get on with the story. IMHO of course!!

[Andrew Curnow]

Also, although I can't remember whether it was pre- or post- titles, I seem to recall that the resolution to Rise of t'Cybermen's cliffhanger was a particularly naff "oh look, I've got some kind of handy Cyber-repelling thing in my hand" one - but one that did at least serve the same "dump the cliffhanger asap and get on with things" purpose, albeit with considerably less style and no laughs!!

[Perry Vale]

(mainly for the "Those would have been rubbish last words" punchline)

That's why I love it too, Eccleston's delivery is just perfect.

[SiHart]

I thought it was incredibly clever solution to the cliffhanger and still do. Very Doctor Who, and a much better solution than just running away or finding a door they could run through or whatever.

[Andrew Curnow]

Although nothing to do with cliffhangers, I'm also very fond of "He's your boyfriend" from The Long Game. It has all three of us here laughing at the time.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Wow. Did Eccleston really only convince you with 45 minutes of his time as the Doc left? He had me at "Run for your life!" in Rose.

I only said "possibly". He definitely had me at "Run" but his Doctor did have some off-putting traits in subsequent episodes.

I suspect I prefer post-titles resolutions although in actual plot terms I definitely prefer "Go to your room" to let's zap the Cybermen with a convenient piece of TARDIS crystal the Doctor happens to be carrying with him.

Poor The Long Game. Some great lines but somehow should've been a better episode. Mind you I agree about the opening and I love Adam's scenes with Debbie from The Archers as well.

[duncan]

I disagree, I'm with Perry in that the "Go to your room" resolution is a particular favourite (mainly for the "Those would have been rubbish last words" punchline). And I think the cliffhanger serves its purpose by getting you to tune in next week - you then want to dump it as quickly as possible in the new episode, and get on with the story. IMHO of course!!

Well personally, I don't like it and maybe it could have been improved had the "Go to your room" line been said after the opening titles. I just think that they got the cliffhangers and resolutions wrong in Series 1.