Should Sci-fi be grouped with General Fiction?

[Rob McCow]

I was in one of the smaller WH Smiths in Waterloo the other day and I noticed that to save space, they'd put all the science-fiction books alongside the mainstream books. Ian Ranking was nuzzling up to Robert Rankin, Iain Banks and Iain M Banks were finally re-united, Douglas Adams was but 42 books away from Jane Austen and Philip K Dick sat next to Dickens. Yay, even the Doctor Who books were included!

Now is this a good thing? Should science fiction be simply integrated into the mainstream? In the long term it would reduce the snobbery that SF faces, when in terms of quality it has just as many highs and lows as any other genre.

Should the segregation end? Or do you find it reassuring to have to go to the dank corners of Smiths or Waterstones for your Who and SF, where at least they're easy to find?

[Dirk Gently]

That's the real problem with intergrating Sci Fi with General Fiction, how the hell do you find anything? In principle it's a good idea but in practice it might be impractical.

[SiHart]

We have this argument every so often at work. Should you put all the fiction together or not? In some ways it;d a be a good thing for reader development, as people might be encouraged to read something that they wouldn't normally read because they see it, pick it up and try it. There's a stigma attatched to Sci-Fi that's difficult to get over- people often say "they don't like sci-fi" under any circumstances.

Recently we've been experimenting with putting some less overtly sci-fi? fantasy items in with the ordinary fiction- a bit of Rankin, a bit of Pratchett and the like to see if it issues any better by not being shelved in a seperate section or having the stickers on the spine. They, of course, go out a whole lot better.

I think there's a far too much pigeonholing of fiction, and that if we spent less time shelving it in shops or libraries in different genres, people will just take what looks good, regardless of what type of story it is. The Crime fans and the Sci-Fi fans and the Fantasy fans and the historical fans will find what they want anyway, other people might just take something that looks like being a good read.

So don't seperate them!
Si xx

[Trudi G]

I think Sci Fi deserves it's own space, and should be displayed proudly on the shelves, and not in some dark corner.
I don't view Pratchett as Sci Fi - it's more Fantasy, and should be put in a Fantasy section.
I like things organised and ordely.

[WhiteCrow]

I think Sci Fi deserves it's own space, and should be displayed proudly on the shelves, and not in some dark corner.
I don't view Pratchett as Sci Fi - it's more Fantasy, and should be put in a Fantasy section.
I like things organised and ordely.

Agree and disagree there. I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy are a good combination, and should be grouped together.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy should be a separate section to general fiction - it's nice to be able to look for new books and try out new writers but within the genre - thats what I used to do in second hand bookshops.

That said though I believe the next fantasy writer to produce an "epic trilogy" should be stoned to death. Do fantasy books now have to be biblical in length?

[Rob McCow]

Good point Mike. Perhaps there should be separate sections for 'First book of a trilogy', and you can only mail order the second and third books if you finish the first!

[Captain Tancredi]

I voted for the latter, mainly because there are a lot of good writers who've written science fiction as part but not all of their output. It seems silly, for instance, to keep Iain Banks and Iain M Banks separate when anybody who knows anything about him knows it's the same man, and I would imagine that a fair number of his fans read both ranges. Similarly with H G Wells, Aldous Huxley and George Orwell- all writers who wrote at least as much about everyday life in their own times. I'd make an exception for the specifically sci-fi imprints, though, because they need to be all together to have a real impact.

[Pip Madeley]

We keep Sci-Fi and Fantasy in their own section at work.

Westerns, Crime, Romance and Popular Classics all have their own space too.

[SiHart]

We do the same. Though quite why Westernms desrev to have their own section is beyong me.

Si xx

[WhiteCrow]

Good point Mike. Perhaps there should be separate sections for 'First book of a trilogy', and you can only mail order the second and third books if you finish the first!

Just don't get me started.

I think people who write a book containing the following elements need to go back to writing school
* ancient evil on the rise and some Satanic figure threatens to engulf world in it's evil
* however a prophesy says someone/last of a particular race will stop him
* turns out the chosen one is living an ordinary life - usually as a farm boy somewhere
* farmboy meets old grizzled warrior who teaches boy how to be a kick ass swordsman in just a chapter

I swear (God rest his soul) it was the only format the late David Gemmell knew - but he's not alone in being guilty.

[Pip Madeley]

We do the same. Though quite why Westernms desrev to have their own section is beyong me.

Si xx

Cause there's a lot of the buggers! Goes for those pale green/red coloured Romance books too. The titles make me laugh.

[Captain Tancredi]

On the Lions bookstall we tend to keep a small box of Westerns because people do ask for them. I think it's a passing interest, though- I don't think any of the buyers are under sixty.

[Pip Madeley]

Only old men take out Western books, that is a fact.

[WhiteCrow]

Only old men take out Western books, that is a fact.

According to Toy Story 2, they grew up with cowboys before spacemen came.

My mum used to smack us around the head if we played cowboys and Indians, as cowboys oppressed the indiginous people, so the Indians were just fighting back to preserve their liberty in the same was the Americans fought the British. Erm ...

[Paul Clement]

Agree and disagree there. I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy are a good combination, and should be grouped together.

Sci-Fi and Fantasy should be a separate section to general fiction - it's nice to be able to look for new books and try out new writers but within the genre - thats what I used to do in second hand bookshops.

I basically agree with David Eddings, when he said that Science Fiction and Fantasy novels should not only not be on the same shelf, they shouldn't be in the same shop. As he said, a science fiction writer will tell you the inticate workings of a timepiece while the fantasy writer will just tell you the time and get on with the story. Fantasy authors make better writers too.

[Rob McCow]

Controversial, Mr.Clement!

Although I'd only end comparing the worst of Fantasy with the best of Sci-fi if this went any further.

As he said, a science fiction writer will tell you the inticate workings of a timepiece while the fantasy writer will just tell you the time and get on with the story. Fantasy authors make better writers too.

I always thought that a Fantasy author would tell you the intricate workings of a twenty-five handed magic timepiece that they've just made up, have an index detailing the stories of all the people who ever owned the timepiece, provide a map so you can see where to buy it and take three books to do so.

[Paul Clement]

Although I'd only end comparing the worst of Fantasy with the best of Sci-fi if this went any further.

No problem, that would be Michael Moorcock vs either H G Wells or John Wyndham from my perspective.

provide a map so you can see where to buy it and take three books to do so.

That's so passe, why do it in three when you can take a whole twelve.

[Rob McCow]

Twelve? Pshaw! Then your descendents can carry on with at least another twenty.

Oh hang on. That's more or less what happened to Frank Herbert's Dune.

[Paul Clement]

Oh hang on. That's more or less what happened to Frank Herbert's Dune.

And his books are definitely more Sci-Fi than Fantasy.

[Larry]

well i'm a traditionalist and I prefer to see books sorted into their individual sections like Crime / Horror / Romance / fiction / si fi for me it just makes things much easier to find when i go into a book shop.

[Rob McCow]

Perhaps we should have even more segregation then. We could have sections for 'Comedy' , 'Soppy Women's Romantic Fiction' , 'Cool Books Where People Take Drugs' , 'Goth, You Know, with Vampires and That' and the 'Rowling' section.

In some ways it makes it easier to find the book you want, but for someone who's just browsing and looking for something cool, it's not such a benefit.

[Jon Masters]

Just don't get me started.

* ancient evil on the rise and some Satanic figure threatens to engulf world in it's evil
* however a prophesy says someone/last of a particular race will stop him
* turns out the chosen one is living an ordinary life - usually as a farm boy somewhere
* farmboy meets old grizzled warrior who teaches boy how to be a kick ass swordsman in just a chapter

I swear (God rest his soul) it was the only format the late David Gemmell knew - but he's not alone in being guilty.

Now I'm intrigued because I can't think of a single David Gemmell book that contains any of those plot devices
His weakness is
*mass battle where valiant army of underdogs fight off overwhelming odds, and a baddie does something noble to help the goodies and pays for it with his life.

I think you were mistaking him for David Eddings who also needs
*goodies are so ultrapowerful and right all the time that they're never really threatened while baddies are thick as pigshit

I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy should be together, near the Erotic fiction but well away from Chick Lit

[Rob McCow]

I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy should be together, near the Erotic fiction

Ah, back to the ghetto.

[Paul Clement]

I think you were mistaking him for David Eddings who also needs
*goodies are so ultrapowerful and right all the time that they're never really threatened while baddies are thick as pigshit

Zandramas, Zedar, Torak, Annias, Azash... David Edding's baddies who aren't as thick as pigshit. The rest of the format is about right though. Actually, David Eddings main deficiency, well for me anyway, is the fact that his characters are far too twee, and their dialogue isn't believable enough because of it.