The All-Purpose US 2012 Election Thread

[Anthony Williams]

Well, with Sarah Palin's announcement that she will not be running for the White House on the Republican ticket, I decided that it was high time that a thread for the 2012 Presidential election was started.

In the blue corner, we have reigning champion Barack Obama, 44th President of the USA. The only person challenging from his own team is Randall Terry, pro-life activist from New York. Seems to me like the incumbent might walk at least that part of the election, Jim!

The choice of heavyweight contender from the red corner has still to be decided. Those who have formally declared their candidacy to take on Obama include:

Michelle Bachmann, U.S. Representative from Minnesota
Herman Cain, former Federal Reserve banker, and businessman from Georgia
Newt Gingrich, former U.S. Speaker of the House of Representatives from Georgia
Jon Huntsman, Jr., former U.S. Ambassador to China, and former Governor of Utah
Gary Johnson, former Governor of New Mexico
Ron Paul, U.S. Representative from Texas
Rick Perry, Governor of Texas
Mitt Romney, former Governor of Massachussetts
Rick Santorum, former Senator from Pennsylvania

So... who will take on the reigning champion? Who do you think is most likely to? Who, of these candidates, do you think would make a good President!?

[Rob McCow]

Unless the economy picks up a bit, the Republicans could put a three-legged donkey up against Obama and win.

And there's a lot of three-legged donkeys on that list.

[Anthony Williams]

Unless the economy picks up a bit, the Republicans could put a three-legged donkey up against Obama and win.

And there's a lot of three-legged donkeys on that list.

Fundamentally, I agree - the prospect of Bachmann or Perry in the White House, frankly, scares me.

Particularly Bachmann - here is a woman who freely admits that she has horrendous migraines that mean that she has blank spaces in her memory lasting two or three days. And she wants to run what is still the most powerful nation on the planet!? I mean, I suffer migraines - but then again, I'm not running to be POTUS.

In the Williams household, we're Ron Paul supporters - we fully believe in low federal taxes, low federal spending, small government, and the return of a lot of power to the individual states. With that, there'd be a lot more variance in the US, and a lot more opportunity for Americans to choose how they live - don't like your state's taxes? Move to another state! Simples!

[Rob McCow]

don't like your state's taxes? Move to another state! Simples!

It's not that simple! If it wasn't for my family and loved ones, I'd seriously consider leaving the UK. (I know you've already managed that leap, Ant!)

[Anthony Williams]

It's not that simple! If it wasn't for my family and loved ones, I'd seriously consider leaving the UK. (I know you've already managed that leap, Ant!)

Well, true. I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek with that comment. But, on the other hand - an hour's drive, and we're in Alabama or Tennessee. A couple of hours, and we're in South Carolina or Florida. Things are a lot closer here

It's even more the case in the North East, where states are about half the size of England - you could easily traverse your way through Maryland, New Jersey, New York and Connecticut in a day.

[Rob McCow]

Which, in some ways, makes it even more bizarre if you can travel one hour down the road and have different laws. So (made up example) it's as if you could be put in prison for jaywalking in Manchester, but be let off without charge in Leeds. I'm sure the US laws won't be as extreme in their stratification, but a similar principle applies.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Oh Goddddd is it that time again? Well that's the BBC news coverage sorted fro the next 18 months then.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Isn't Obama kind of doing an okay job though?

[Anthony Williams]

Well, regardless as to whether you think so or not, there legally has to be a presidential election in 2012, Mike

[Alex]

In the Williams household, we're Ron Paul supporters...

Whilst some of his ideas are clearly of interest, I'm bothered by the fact that he opposes: Gay Marriage, Embryonic stem cell research (which seems especially idiotic), Abortion, and the Implementing the Kyoto Protocol.

Out of genuine interest, what's your view on that Ant (and any other US PS'ers too. Hell, everyone infact! )

[Anthony Williams]

While Ron Paul may personally be against those things, he has already said that he believes that the decisions on things like Gay Marriage, Embryonic stem cells and abortion should be up to the individual states, not to the Federal Government. Which is a very Libertarian idea (which makes sense - he used to be a Libertarian Party candidate).

That's what we support - the idea of small federal government, with most powers residing with the individual states.

In terms of my personal viewpoints, I'm pro-Gay marriage, anti-embryonic stem cell research, pro-choice for everyone else, but anti-abortion in my personal views (i.e. I believe abortion is wrong, but I don't want to restrict anyone else on it).

As for the Kyoto Protocol - I have no strong opinions, either way. I'm not 100% convinced that climate change is down to human factors, but I'm not 100% convinced that it isn't, either.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

the idea of small federal government, with most powers residing with the individual states

Sounds awfully like the unUnited States of America.

[Alex]

While Ron Paul may personally be against those things, he has already said that he believes that the decisions on things like Gay Marriage, Embryonic stem cells and abortion should be up to the individual states, not to the Federal Government. Which is a very Libertarian idea (which makes sense - he used to be a Libertarian Party candidate).

That's what we support - the idea of small federal government, with most powers residing with the individual states.

In terms of my personal viewpoints, I'm pro-Gay marriage, anti-embryonic stem cell research, pro-choice for everyone else, but anti-abortion in my personal views (i.e. I believe abortion is wrong, but I don't want to restrict anyone else on it).

As for the Kyoto Protocol - I have no strong opinions, either way. I'm not 100% convinced that climate change is down to human factors, but I'm not 100% convinced that it isn't, either.

That's all fair enough, bar the abortion and stem cell research part (imho of course) - but considering the latter is something which might radically change millions of lives for the better, how come you're against it?

[Anthony Williams]

Sounds awfully like the unUnited States of America.

Actually, my viewpoint is VERY American - in terms of going back to the original idea of the nation. It is of note that prior to the Civil War, when someone was noting the position of the nation, it was always "The United States are..." - while the result of the Civil War was to limit the powers of the individual states, and henceforth, the term more commonly used was "The United States is..."

There's a big movement here on returning to a closer interpretation of the Constitution and thus devolving power back to the individual States as mandated in that document - mostly revolving around foreign policy, and a few select federal policies (currency, postal service, roads, elections)

The notion of policies like entitlements, education policy and the like resting with the federal government is actually a very 20th century idea, and prior to then, rested with the individual states. The Libertarian idea, as championed by Ron Paul, is to move away from the bloated government that we have now, move away from an interventionalist foreign policy, and to move closer towards the Constituiton of the USA (which I firmly believe to be one of the most perfect governmental documents ever devised - and I say that as a Brit!)

That's all fair enough, bar the abortion and stem cell research part (imho of course) - but considering the latter is something which might radically change millions of lives for the better, how come you're against it?

With regards to abortion - I don't think my views are objectionable at all. I fully believe that abortion should be legal - I believe that people should have the option to make that choice, even if I personally believe that it's the wrong choice.

In terms of embryonic stem cell research, my belief stems (if you'll forgive the pun) in that stem cells can now be artifically grown, rather than being taken from potential human beings. If such stem cells could ONLY be harvested from embryos, I would be (reluctantly) supportive of it.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

The problem though with having each individual state having it's own laws is it creates a level of inequality.

Pre-Civil War America that inequality would involve whether an individual could be considered property or a free man. I think personally there have to be some laws which are consistent.

I also look at how things have gone in the UK where Scotland and Wales have managed to separate themselves as separate states to an extent, and it has created again some inequality between someone living in England vs Scotland / Wales which feels kind of wrong.

[Larry]

these last 4 years have gone very quickly - and the hope and expectations people had when Obama, first came into office have all gone now. I've seen one or two of the possible candidates on the news over the last few months and neither of them were exavtly impressive and that's why I think Obama will get in again.

no doubt there will be some people calling for Hillary Clinton, to stand but I personally think she won't do it she knows challanging Obama, now could be politicaly disasterous for her as she if she lost would lose her current job if OBama was to be re elected. So my feeling on Clinton, is she'll bide her time and will stand for office at the next election in 2016/17.

[Anthony Williams]

Pre-Civil War America that inequality would involve whether an individual could be considered property or a free man. I think personally there have to be some laws which are consistent.

I think everyone can agree that slavery is wrong. However, slavery was uneconomical and would've died out within a few decades anyway, even without the intervention of the North. Instead, the workforce of the South was suddenly taken away, utterly destroying the economy of the South for nearly a century.

I also look at how things have gone in the UK where Scotland and Wales have managed to separate themselves as separate states to an extent, and it has created again some inequality between someone living in England vs Scotland / Wales which feels kind of wrong.

The thing with America is that it was never originally envisioned to be one nation with one domestic policy. It was a collection of individual States with a shared foreign policy. I think that a closer analogy is how people in the UK are getting quite shirty over more and more powers being handed over to Europe, as opposed to devolution - since the UK was designed to be one nation in the Acts of Union 1707, as opposed to a Federal system.

these last 4 years have gone very quickly - and the hope and expectations people had when Obama, first came into office have all gone now. I've seen one or two of the possible candidates on the news over the last few months and neither of them were exavtly impressive and that's why I think Obama will get in again.

Time will tell, Larry. These things often don't really take off until there's one clear candidate. Once the GOP have chosen their candidate, then there'll be a clearer picture of whether Obama will return to the White House in January 2013 or not.

no doubt there will be some people calling for Hillary Clinton, to stand but I personally think she won't do it she knows challanging Obama, now could be politicaly disasterous for her as she if she lost would lose her current job if OBama was to be re elected. So my feeling on Clinton, is she'll bide her time and will stand for office at the next election in 2016/17.

Well, Hillary has said that she's done with politics - she has declared that she will not return to the position of Secretary of State if Obama is re-elected, and seems to have ruled out trying to secure the Presidency again.

[Alex]

With regards to abortion - I don't think my views are objectionable at all. I fully believe that abortion should be legal - I believe that people should have the option to make that choice, even if I personally believe that it's the wrong choice.

In terms of embryonic stem cell research, my belief stems (if you'll forgive the pun) in that stem cells can now be artifically grown, rather than being taken from potential human beings. If such stem cells could ONLY be harvested from embryos, I would be (reluctantly) supportive of it.

Well it's obviously a difference of opinion when it comes to abortion, but I don't think it's "wrong" in the slightest - if a baby isn't wanted, than it's far far better that it be aborted than be brought up in unpleasant circumstances...

[Dino]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/herman-ca...clear-program/

The post-sexual harassment Herman Cain media blitz that has kept up all week has done a great deal to understand the workings of the Cain campaign in crisis, but there is one other element of Cain’s platform that seems to be getting hit the hardest by his exposure to the press: his foreign policy credentials. Tonight on The O’Reilly Factor, Cain essentially said he was ready to declare war on Iran; last night on PBS’s Newshour, he told Judy Woodruff he suspected China was “trying to develop nuclear capability,” despite having nuclear weapons since 1964.

Woodruff began the interview asking whether China was “a potential military threat to the United States” in Cain’s eyes. Cain answered in the affirmative, and responded that in order to neutralize the threat, he would “outgrow China” economically. Then he noted that the threat was assuaged significantly by the fact that “we already have superiority in terms of our military capability.” “I plan to get away from making cutting our defense a priority,” he noted, stating his motto as “peace through strength and clarity.” He then turned to the threat he saw he would need to stop: “they’ve indicated that they’re trying to develop nuclear capability and they want to develop more aircraft carriers like we have.”

The problem with this claim, of course, is that China is not exactly “trying” to develop nuclear capability any more than America is– they staged their first nuclear weapons test in 1964. Cain didn’t clarify what he meant by that phrase, but it certainly doesn’t make him look particularly knowledgeable to not know that China has nuclear weapons. Woodruff, on her part, did not comment on his statements and moved on to another topic, seemingly unaware of the fact that Cain’s statement seemed to belie the fact that he had no idea that China was a nuclear nation, and that this is common knowledge in the political world– leaving Cain without the chance to clarify yet another murky policy statement that his staunch supporters will argue is being unfairly wielded as a weapon against him.

I know living in the UK I've got no right to claim any victory given the dismal choice I'll have next election, but come off it! Wasn't one village idiot enough?

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Hope I can be forgiven for posting an Anti-Romney video here but whatever your political persuasion it's worth watching for the eye candy...

Without any further ado we proudly present...

Wrong Direction's "Disclosure" ...

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Gosh I'd almost forgotten about that video... happy memories!

Anyway just to say Thank Goodness For That!

[Nyder]

My sentiments exactly Richard :-)

[Rob McCow]

Oh dear, another five years of the lame-bottomed liberal no-good poor-loving 'Token' so-called President of the US of Why The Goddarned Hell Should I Have To Pay For Someone Else To See A Doctor?

My only wish was that if Mitt Romney had got in, he'd be followed by Presidents Hythe and Dymchurch.

[Si Hunt]

I know nothing about the policies but I'm glad Obama got in because (a) he seems nicer (b) I don't think it's a good idea to switch leaders in the middle of an economic recovery plan (c) It may be a case of better the devil you know (d) I heard disturbing things about Mitt and his anti-gay policies.

I basically know crap-all about it, but then I didn't get a vote so that's okay. Obama seems like a decent enough chap though, and his wife is glamorous. They shouldn't let old people be President, you need someone in touch.

Si.

[Dino]

http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/

One of the most entertaining tumblr pages I've seen.

Can I have an "Over", can I have a "reaction"? Put 'em together annnd...

My favourite is the woman with the blue glove puppet on page 3.