Should Scotland leave the UK?

[SiHart]

It's been in the news a lot the last week or so- should Scotland leave the UK?

What do you think about this?

[Philipnet]

Yes.
They should b***** off up north and leave us southerners to be (and to have working internet)

[Larry]

well I'm half Scottish so I want the union to stay together I can fully understand that Scotland want more say in the running of things but I honestly can't see how an independent Scotland will be of benefit to them.

[Rob McCow]

I don't understand it at all!

There's the nationalistic element to it, but that's not really strong enough to justify separation on it's own.

My thinking is that there must be vested financial interests in breaking the UK up, but I can't see how. It's been suggested that lots of money passes from the South of England up to Scotland through various means, so they'd surely be cutting that off?

Looking around, here's some comments from The Guardian:

Cardinal Keith O'Brien

In 2006 I addressed the issue of Scottish independence when I said I would not get too involved in the politics of independence, but I am happy that, if it is the wish of the people, Scotland becomes an independent country.

In my travels I have had much experience of small countries and I have seen what benefits independence can bring. I felt then that there was some frustration among the Scots about the say they have over what happens here, and that was part of what was pushing the independence movement. I still feel this is the case.

It is also true that the Catholic Church in Scotland has a distinct and internationally recognised position so it would be difficult to argue that ecclesiastical independence is acceptable but political independence is not.

The ongoing debate on the Trident missile system is instructive. The groundswell of feeling on Trident in Scotland against has highlighted a deep sense of frustration among many Scots. We have no wish to pay for or host these evil weapons, yet we have no power to remove them.

I don't think that people in England are on the whole any happier about Trident - our voices aren't heard either.

Elaine C Smith

I believe Scotland would be stronger and more prosperous if it was an independent nation. However, that's not to say that close links and co-operation with the rest of the UK are not absolutely essential and vital to Scotland's economy. I think that we have to look at this as a 300-year-old agreement that is in dire need of a review.

All great unions – business relationships and personal circumstances – need to be worked at, reviewed and updated where necessary.

Any relationship or partnership needs to be based on a sense of equality and equal respect. Sadly, over the last 30-40 years and longer, this position of trust and respect has been eroded and it is time for a real debate and review of the situation.

This is not in any way anti-English or anti-UK, it's pro-Scottish, and I think we can only benefit as a nation if we look closely at what we get out of any partnership within the UK.

This one sounds like 'I'm not racist but...' to me. Very flimsy arguments about 'the relationship not being as strong'.

The BBC have a case for economic independence: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16548644 - but it looks to me that it's just about control of the North Sea oil and gas. So the usual depressing reasons then!

[Nyder]

Then there's the West Lothian question ......

[Rob McCow]

A group of pan-dimensional super-Scots were fed up with the whole thing and decided to build a super-computer to answer the West Lothian question once and for all.

[Nyder]

Valentine Dyall with a scots accent - that's just so perfect!

[Rob McCow]

McVroomfondle and Hamish Magikthyse demand an absence of Brits!

Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk

[Dirk Gently]

Surely any Scot worth his salt would just want the English out, may be they could ban English people & then not need to be separate to the rest of the U.K.

[MacNimon]

Up here, there is a split between those who think we should be independent and those who don't. I, for one, am in the 'No' brigade...quite simply, I don't believe that Scotland has a strong enough economy to survive as a nation in its own right. For one thing, population...more people live in London alone (7.75 million) than in the whole of Scotland (approx 5.2 million).

I believe that Scotland would have been in a better position for independence 30 years ago...there were the traditional industries such as mining, steel and shipbuilding which employed thousands before the Thatcher years decimated those industries causing mass unemployment on such an unprecedented level that many areas never recovered, even to this day. I'm not meaning to turn this into an anti-Tory or anti-Thatcher rant, but felt that I had to point out that the ill-feeling caused by this - plus the fact that we were used as a guinea pig for the hated Poll Tax a year before the rest of the UK - is what has turned Scotland into an almost Conservative-free zone (sorry Ralph, you're in the minority up here!). This bad feeling is largely where the current push for independence is coming from, but the question has to be what Scotland as an independent nation can do to fix these problems in a way that it can't as part of the UK.

My problem with Alex Salmond's attitude is that he is playing on patriotism rather than realism in trying to get support. Things like the timing of the poll, an important date in Scottish history...the 700th anniversary of the Scottish victory over England at the Battle Of Bannockburn; the timing of the announcement of the question itself on Robert Burns birthday...it just all seems too tacky for me, too phoney. He's relying on patriotism, on people being easily led...I believe thats why he wants impressionable 16 and 17 year olds to be able to vote. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they organised special showings of Braveheart in the run-up to the poll, and got BBC Scotland to show numerous repeats of Englands 1966 World Cup - winning game, just to stir up anti-English sentiment!!!

There has been too much attention on trivial stuff so far, and not enough attention on the important stuff. David Cameron getting involved apparently didn't help things if you listen to the independence camp, it just agitated some people who say that his intervention would backfire and cause many more to vote for an independent Scotland. Nonsense...what it has done is kick off a serious debate about the future, not only for Scotland but for the UK itself.

I've got plenty more to say on the subject - trade with England, exporting goods abroad etc... this is just the tip of the iceberg! But enough's enough for one post...

But then again, why worry about it? Alex Salmond said the other day that an independent Scotland would be the 6th most wealthy country in the world

If he said it, it must be true....

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Isn't there the belief that all the money that comes from the North Sea oil should be spend by and for the sole benefit of Scotland according to the SNP?

The current system seems to support Scotland being able to make it's own policy decisions, as long as the rest of the UK foots the bill. So part of me would like to see Scotland break away, just to see how they'll balance their books on their own.

[SiHart]

And presumably they'd have to take their share of the national debt with them if they go to, which wouldn't get Scotland off to a great start.

[WhiteCrowNZ]

And presumably they'd have to take their share of the national debt with them if they go to, which wouldn't get Scotland off to a great start.

Oh no, we'd get to keep that. It'd be the equivalent of a messy divorce but with countries I'd think.

I wonder how they'd really cope with it. There is a certain amount of Scottish mentality that they get screwed over by the English. I think even independent, everything would still be our fault. The SNP would probably then have to "seek reparations for hundreds of years of English rule" as it's new campaign.

[Rob McCow]

If the stereotypes are to believed, they'll start up their own currency but nobody outside of Scotland will be allowed to actually see it.

[Anthony Williams]

I think that the real question is should the rest of the UK leave Scotland?

[Rob McCow]

David 'PM' Cameron doesn't think so:

David Cameron claimed on Wednesday night that an independent Scotland would be less influential on the world stage, lose the protection of the UK's armed forces and could lose the pound.

Speaking before a trip to Edinburgh, the prime minister talked in passionate language about his desire to keep the union and insisted he wanted to make a positive case for keeping Scotland in the UK. However, his list of issues raised – including Scotland losing its seat (as part of the UK) on the United Nations security council – could be seen by opponents as an attempt to threaten voters into shunning independence in the planned referendum.

Cameron said he would "fight with everything I have to keep our United Kingdom", describing it as "something really precious". He added: "To me this is not some issue of policy or strategy or calculation – it matters head, heart and soul."

He said his main argument would be "we are better off together".

He said: "We're stronger, because together we count for more in the world, with a permanent seat on the UN security council, real clout in Nato and Europe, and unique influence with allies all over the world.

"We're safer because in an increasingly dangerous world we have the fourth-largest defence budget on the planet, superb armed forces, and anti-terrorist and security capabilities that stretch across the globe and are feared by our enemies and admired by our friends.

"We're richer, because inside the United Kingdom Scotland's 5 million people are part of an economy of 60 million, the seventh-richest economy on the planet and one of the world's biggest trading powers. Today, Scotland has a currency which takes into account the needs of Scottish economy as well as the rest of the United Kingdom when setting interest rates and it can borrow at rates that are among the lowest in Europe."

When he says he will "fight with everything I have to keep our United Kingdom" I hope he's remembered that 'Everything he has' includes the Armed Forces.

I honestly don't think his argument about safety stacks up though. When was the last time someone tried to bomb Edinburgh? I believe it was the 1940's.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Edinburgh itself no but obviously there was Lockerbie in '88 and more recently in 2007 there was that rather nasty business with the two would-be terrorists driving a cherokee loaded with Propane cannisters into the entrance of Glasgow Airport.
Fortunately the resulting fire wasn't as severe at might have been expected from an exploding jeep and the bollards protecting the entrance meant that there were only a few injuries in the vicinity. The only fatality was the driver who died in hospital several days later whilst under arrest. His accomplice, a British born Muslim Doctor, survived his injuries and is serving a 32 year jail term.

[Junkyard]

Up here, there is a split between those who think we should be independent and those who don't. I, for one, am in the 'No' brigade...quite simply, I don't believe that Scotland has a strong enough economy to survive as a nation in its own right. For one thing, population...more people live in London alone (7.75 million) than in the whole of Scotland (approx 5.2 million).

I believe that Scotland would have been in a better position for independence 30 years ago...there were the traditional industries such as mining, steel and shipbuilding which employed thousands before the Thatcher years decimated those industries causing mass unemployment on such an unprecedented level that many areas never recovered, even to this day. I'm not meaning to turn this into an anti-Tory or anti-Thatcher rant, but felt that I had to point out that the ill-feeling caused by this - plus the fact that we were used as a guinea pig for the hated Poll Tax a year before the rest of the UK - is what has turned Scotland into an almost Conservative-free zone (sorry Ralph, you're in the minority up here!). This bad feeling is largely where the current push for independence is coming from, but the question has to be what Scotland as an independent nation can do to fix these problems in a way that it can't as part of the UK.

My problem with Alex Salmond's attitude is that he is playing on patriotism rather than realism in trying to get support. Things like the timing of the poll, an important date in Scottish history...the 700th anniversary of the Scottish victory over England at the Battle Of Bannockburn; the timing of the announcement of the question itself on Robert Burns birthday...it just all seems too tacky for me, too phoney. He's relying on patriotism, on people being easily led...I believe thats why he wants impressionable 16 and 17 year olds to be able to vote. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they organised special showings of Braveheart in the run-up to the poll, and got BBC Scotland to show numerous repeats of Englands 1966 World Cup - winning game, just to stir up anti-English sentiment!!!

There has been too much attention on trivial stuff so far, and not enough attention on the important stuff. David Cameron getting involved apparently didn't help things if you listen to the independence camp, it just agitated some people who say that his intervention would backfire and cause many more to vote for an independent Scotland. Nonsense...what it has done is kick off a serious debate about the future, not only for Scotland but for the UK itself.

I've got plenty more to say on the subject - trade with England, exporting goods abroad etc... this is just the tip of the iceberg! But enough's enough for one post...

But then again, why worry about it? Alex Salmond said the other day that an independent Scotland would be the 6th most wealthy country in the world

If he said it, it must be true....

Great post MacNimon

I think much the same; there does seem to be an assumption on the part of the SNP that an independent Scotland will automatically be better off. In other words we English are holding you back (perhaps we are?). The whole business will turn out to be more complicated than anyone thinks, with a lot of unintended consequences for the Scottish and the English, not forgetting Wales and Ulster. Which ever way it goes, I think it will be a disaster for one or both of the countries.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I think the main argument against wanting to be independent is that, if they vote for it now, they'll have a oily, smug, toad-faced nationalist as a leader.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

Also, would Scotland then start claiming sovereignty over the Falklands as well?