Don't watch alone...

[Ralph]

Leonard's puppet had definite similarities to Roger's

[Wayne]

"I am Leonard Nimoy - I am a serious actor."

*Cue Shakespeare:

"To be, or no to be.......THAT...........

*Dramatic pause


....... is illogical Captain'.

[Alex]

First of, for Ralph's benefit, they be spoilers below!

First of all, i enjoyed the film, & agree with Alex's comment about the visuals which are superb. I agree also that like 'The Ring', the focus is on the pychological level which i enjoyed. However, whilst i really liked the film for it's freaky, surreal edge, i don't think it was as out & out 'hairs on the back of yer neck standing up', as 'The Ring'. This is not a criticism, but more an observation of the slightly different tone of the film. It certainly did have it's unnerving moments - The deformed man in the lift was the most effective for me, especially when you see the feet not touching the floor. Brrrrrrr! Also the scene at the caligraphers (sp?) (Why are you sitting in my chair?) was pretty startling!

I think one of the attractions of the film for me was it that it was more unpredictable when it came to scares. Not all the time, certainly, but sometimes you just know when something's going to happen in the Ring (especially when those 7 days are up!), whereas here it caught me off guard a fair few times. If I've any complaints about the film, it's just that there's not enough of them. But then again with The Ring, that building up of tension where you know something horrible's about to happen is what makes it so effective, and, well, I guess I just like both of these things in my horror movies!

I'm not sure if this is gonna make complete sense - It's very difficult to get across the different perception i got from this film compared to 'The Ring', because is quite subtle. For a start there's something very iconic about the whole Sadako/Samara imagery. Those scenes from Ringu/The Ring are just so memorable & for me personally, more unnerving even than anything from 'The Eye'. I think partly it's because; whilst there's a strong element of tragedy in both 'The Eye' & 'The Ring', i think 'The Eye' has more of a tone of genuinely tragic events that both Ling & Mun for not really responsible for. Whereas in 'The Ring', there's a distinctly dark intent that eminates from Sadako. She just seems genuinely more deranged & evil than either Ling or Mun. Sadako's death was steeped in tragedy like Ling's was, But because Sadoko was murdered, it there's a much stronger deliberate, vengeful feeling. Whereas Ling being bullied, & basically being made an outcast, drove her to take her own life, which is even more of a genuine human tragedy than 'The Ring', maybe - But it does give a slightly different tone to the film. I dunno if i'm making sense, or if i'm making too much of it, but that's way i picked it up anyway. But these are not criticisms, just observations!

Oh I completely see where you're coming from, Sadako's relentless thirst for revenge is terrifying, and probably why I too prefer The Ring to The Eye, but only just about. I think what I really liked about The Eye is how the plot changes as it suddenly becomes more of a mystery as Mun tries to track down the owner of her eyes.

I think another element is that Hideo Nakata is just such an absolutely superb director. With all due respect to the Pang brothers who have made a fine film, with some great sequences; Nakata knows how inject the absolute maximum amount of suspense & tension into his scenes. You really are on the edge of your seat, or at least i was! Perhaps i souldn't make too many comparisons, but as a relative novice to asian horror, i can't help but compare.

Yep, I completely agree again! Nakata paces things so well, and there's just a look and a style to his movies which are fairly unique - certainly with the remake of The Ring 2 I found it immediately noticable that it was one of his films, whereas with the first Ring I thought they tried to capture the look, but didn't always succeed. Then again I do like The Pang Brothers' style, I think this was relatively one of their early films, and I think they've developed further since.

One of the best sequences from 'The Eye' though, has to that end scene, the fire & the aftermath, which is pretty bloody grim actually, but so effective. And again underscores why this film has more of a sense of tragedy. The final scene between Ling & her mother was beautifully touching though. Very poignant. Even more so than 'Dark Water'. I could feel tears in the back of my eyes at this ending....

I think that's one of the reasons I love the film so much. If it had played out as a standard horror film it'd been okay but nothing special, but the direction of that last half, and how it ends, is what it makes it so worth watching.

The other big difference with 'The Ring', is that this film seems to come to a definite everything resolved ending. It's difficult to see how the sequel(s) will go, without using the same theme with a different set of characters. Ling seems very much at peace at the end of this movie. Not so with Samara/Sadako.......

The fact that a sequel existed really surprised me too, as you probably remember! Infact I think I mentioned the other day that it's not really a sequel as such, more, as you mention, a film which (sort of) uses the same theme with a different set of characters.

All in all then, another damn fine movie. It felt a little different to what i expected. It doesn't quite have sheer edge that Hideo Nakata's has, IMO, & possibly not quite the same momentum. But a totally worthwhile film, Very powerful in a more emotional way i think, & yes some some downright wierd, scary bits. A great addition to any horror fan's collection. I'm glad i bought it, & thanks for the recommendation! I'm gigging for the next couple of night's, but i looking forward to checking out the sequels, starting with 'The Eye 2', on Tuesday.

I'm glad you liked it, and hopefully you will with The Eye 2. Again it might not be what you expect, but at the same time I found it a very interesting film and hope you do too!

Re: The Shining

I have to say that I've always loved this film, but I haven't seen it in about 10 years or so now. But I'm a huge Kubrick fan and just find his work in the seventies and early eighties fascinating. It may be a cliche but I think that whilst A Clockwork Orange is his greatest film, for me The Shining comes a very close second.

Plus I thought Jack's quite restrained in this, at least until the latter stage of the film. I know that he's fallen in to playing a bit of a charicature of himself of late, but I think he's still capable of really interesting performances, he's great in The Departed, and I quite like the more restrained and downbeat characters he does in things like About Schmidt (though the film itself left me all a bit cold, but I blame the script rather than the performances for that).

[Wayne]

Thanks Alex, for such a great response to the points in my review. It's like having a converstation, except we can't have a pint.
I'm grateful that you've pointed me in the direction of this stuff, I'm really enjoying watching it, & talking about it.

[Ralph]

Theatre of Death (1966)

The setting:

"In the dark streets of Paris, innocent victims mysteriously die, having had all their blood drained from their bodies by sharp punctures. A Theatre of Death, or Grand Guingol theatre, is nearby and a great success, thanks in large part to the efforts of its somewhat mysterious, demented, hypnotic director Phillipe Darvas. Christopher Lee plays the director in this above-average horror-mystery. A friend of the cast, Julian Glover, and a policeman, somehow find that the theater and the mysterious deaths are related. Lots of red herrings in this one and a neat, creative story tying up the loose ends. Not a lot of action but more mood and psychological horror. The setting is Paris but you only know that, because everyone has French names - otherwise it seems like London."

Chris Lee's performance is very good in this one and probably the highlight of the film but the whole thing didn't engage me to the extent that it ought to have. I didn't care much for the characters - I can't quite pin it down but the key ingredients for a good movie appear to be there. I noticed Ivor Dean of "The Saint" fame plays his usual character. There are some very good moments in the final sequences. I can only give it 5.5/10 wish I could give it more.

[Wayne]

Theatre of Death (1966)

Chris Lee's performance is very good in this one and probably the highlight of the film but the whole thing didn't engage me to the extent that it ought to have. I didn't care much for the characters - I can't quite pin it down but the key ingredients for a good movie appear to be there. I noticed Ivor Dean of "The Saint" fame plays his usual character. There are some very good moments in the final sequences. I can only give it 5.5/10 wish I could give it more.

It's true that it's not one of the very best. Mainly worthy as you say for an excellent performance by Chris Lee. I'd probably give it about 6.5/10, which is a low mark for me.

Meanwhile, i'll be back on track with 'The Eye 2', tonight.

[Ralph]

I'll keep an eye on things tonight then

[Wayne]

I'll keep an eye on things tonight then

It's going to be a night owl late horror! I'm not starting it 'til after 'Family Guy'.

[Ralph]

I wasn't in horror mode this evening - I fancied taking a break to keep it all fresh - as for your viewing tonight, no point starting until the witching hour for maximum impact

[Wayne]

Doesn't seem like first class post arrives any quicker than second?

[Ralph]

Apparently I had a few packages arrived today that I'll be picking up at the local depot tommorow - they put a rubber band round them and therefore they can't fit in my letterbox

[Wayne]

And it never occured to them to try to post them individually.

Still, mine is a big package. So to speak.......

[Ralph]

Still, mine is a big package. So to speak.......

Carol's got a lot to answer for, massaging your ego o godly one

[Wayne]

You'll be enjoying the fruits of my package soon enough.

[Ralph]

[Wayne]

i'm looking forward to checking out the sequels, starting with 'The Eye 2', on Tuesday.

Well, i've just finished it, & it wasn't a bad film, but i have to say that compared to the other films of this ilk that i've seen recently, this was the weakest so far, & the first time i've come away a bit disappointed.
Why? Well first of all it felt like it took take ages to get going. Nothing much seemed to happen for about the first 45mins. There were a couple of minor spooky/jumpy bits, but only the standard fayre that you'd expect from any average horror movie. That's perhaps a tad unfair, because this is definitely an above average film, but not by all that much compared to the first 'Eye'.

SPOILERS BELOW


However, it does have a couple of scenes that are very good. Especially the scene in the hospital elevator, where the woman goes into labour. It's almost worth watching the film for that scene alone, which is really spooky, & as good, (if not better) as anything it the original 'Eye' film. Similarly, the scene about 15mins from the end, just before Mrs Chow gives birth, was almost as good.
The film was a variation on a theme, similar yet different to the first one, but it didn't have the overall impact, neither emotionally like the first one did, nor just as a horror film in it's own right. The buddhist angle was quite an interesting take on things, though. I thought that that wove into the whole concept that they were trying put across here, very well.
But to be honest, about an hour or so in, i felt that i was struggling slightly, although the film was saved by somewhat by those two particularly good scenes. Again, i think the film had a slightly grim feel about it, which although that might sound like an odd thing to complain about in a horror film, it seemed to fail to offset this by making me warm to the main character: Joey. I felt as though i ought to be feeling something when she was pushed to the point of twice jumping off the window ledge at the hospital, near the end of the film, but somehow it didn't really grab me. In fact, i thought it ulikely that she would survive two falls like that, at all.

End of Spoilers

So all in all, not a bad film, but not a great one overall, IMO. And certainly not as good the Ring sequel, comparitively speaking. At this point i'm undecided as to whether i want to keep this one. I think i'll see how i get on with the 3rd 'Eye' film: 'The Eye Infinity', tomorrow night. If that's good, then it'll make it worth keeping all three, instead of just the first one, which is definitely staying. But to give an idea of how i'd rate 'Eye 2' in the grand scheme, i'd award 6/10, or possibly 6.5/10, with an extra half point for the particular scenes mentioned.

[Ralph]

Well I should be joining you shortly to chip in my thoughts of these movies and read your posts

[Wayne]

Well I should be joining you shortly to chip in my thoughts of these movies and read your posts

I look forward to your views.
I just had to edit the last paragraph underneath 'END OF SPOILERS'. I missed out the very crucial word: 'not'. As in: not as good as The Ring sequel.

[Wayne]

At this point i'm undecided as to whether i want to keep this one. I think i'll see how i get on with the 3rd 'Eye' film: 'The Eye Infinity', tomorrow night. If that's good, then it'll make it worth keeping all three, instead of just the first one, which is definitely staying.

Well, i've just watched The Eye Infinity, & it's tipped the balance in favour of keeping all three!
Although this 3rd film is only really very thinly related to the original 'Eye' film, i actually enjoyed it more than 'The Eye 2'.

Mild Spoilers:

The film is quite different to the other two 'Eye' films, in the sense that the 'threat' doesn't come from one particular source, & nor is it channeled through one particular person. In a way, it's a series of set pieces which are woven together through the concept of book which is sold to one of the characters in the film.
The characters are a group of young people who are have gathered together to tell each other ghost stories. One of the characters produces a book which he bought from a mysterious man at an old bookshop. It's a book of ancient Thai beliefs of which the title translates as 'The 10 Ways To See A Ghost'. (Note that the original title of the film is 'Eye 10')
Between them, they begin to recreate the conditions in the book, & they are soon plunged into an unstoppable sequence of events, because once the book is started, it must be seen through to the end.
What follows is a series different sequences relating to one or more of the characters who each have different experiences related to the 10 ways to see a ghost. Most of these scenes are very surreal & many have a distinctly disturbing edge as the viewer is taken on an inter-dimensional voyage, which again taps into the buddhist beliefs raised in the previous film, but with a far darker edge.
The film eventually culminates in two of the characters venturing into the spirit world via an ancient supernatural ceremony. This is one of the longest & most stunning sequences in the film, both visually, & for the 'hairs on the back the neck' standing up factor. Great stuff! Right up my street!
I won't say too much about the ending, in relation to what happens to certain key characters, but there are several twists & turns that run through the film that bind it all together into a cohesive story, even though it seems like a series of events happen to particular characters at a particular time, & the film ends with the book back again the bookshop, with the old man selling it to another unsuspecting buyer........

Mild Spoilers End.......

I enjoyed this film! The general themes set up in the original movie are still in use, but essentially there's no real connection to the previous films, bar a couple of brief self referential moments. The good thing is that whereas the 'Eye 2', tried to explore a similiar idea to the one set up in the original, albeit on a different tangent; there was a certain sense going over the same ground. This movie however, actually feels a lot more original & fresh than the second movie, even though (& perhaps because) it's quite a departure from the first two movies. But importantly, it expands on the greater philosphical/theological/supernatural concepts set from the beggining. A fine movie. Well worth watching!

The Eye - 9/10
The Eye 2 - 6.5/10
The Eye Infinity - 8/10

Meanwhile, I'm gigging tomorrow night, but will be moving onto the original Japanese version of 'The Grudge', on Friday night.

[Alex]

I'm going to ignore your Eye 3 comments till I've seen it Wayne, but I'm glad you've liked the trilogy as a whole, anyway.

As for The Eye 2...

SPOILERS BELOW

Well, i've just finished it, & it wasn't a bad film, but i have to say that compared to the other films of this ilk that i've seen recently, this was the weakest so far, & the first time i've come away a bit disappointed.
Why? Well first of all it felt like it took take ages to get going. Nothing much seemed to happen for about the first 45mins. There were a couple of minor spooky/jumpy bits, but only the standard fayre that you'd expect from any average horror movie. That's perhaps a tad unfair, because this is definitely an above average film, but not by all that much compared to the first 'Eye'.

I quite liked the slow pace to be honest, I hadn't seen the original Eye film in ages though, so that probably helped. But I found myself intrigued by what was going on, qand though, like you say, the jumpy bits were hardly original, I did find myself caught out by them. Moreso than recent films I've watched, I really did care about the character and what was happening to her, especially considering the fact that all this was happening to her whilst she was pregnant.

However, it does have a couple of scenes that are very good. Especially the scene in the hospital elevator, where the woman goes into labour. It's almost worth watching the film for that scene alone, which is really spooky, & as good, (if not better) as anything it the original 'Eye' film. Similarly, the scene about 15mins from the end, just before Mrs Chow gives birth, was almost as good.

That first scene is just fantastic, isn't it! As much as I was enjoying the film, from there on in I thought it stepped up a level, and was really gripped by it. And yeah, the second one's also cool, and I liked the way I was caught off guard by what the outcome with her baby was.

The film was a variation on a theme, similar yet different to the first one, but it didn't have the overall impact, neither emotionally like the first one did, nor just as a horror film in it's own right. The buddhist angle was quite an interesting take on things, though. I thought that that wove into the whole concept that they were trying put across here, very well.

I liked the buddhist angle too, despite simultaneously not believing in it, but then I guess fantasy and horror films are all about suspension of belief. It's just when religion comes in to something, I find it more difficult to do. But that's more my problem than the film's.

But to be honest, about an hour or so in, i felt that i was struggling slightly, although the film was saved by somewhat by those two particularly good scenes. Again, i think the film had a slightly grim feel about it, which although that might sound like an odd thing to complain about in a horror film, it seemed to fail to offset this by making me warm to the main character: Joey. I felt as though i ought to be feeling something when she was pushed to the point of twice jumping off the window ledge at the hospital, near the end of the film, but somehow it didn't really grab me. In fact, i thought it ulikely that she would survive two falls like that, at all.

I guess that's the only real difference we have on the film, is that I quite liked her and you didn't. How could you be so harsh though...the poor woman's been dumped by her boyfriend, can't cope with life, being haunted by ghosts and she's just found out she's pregnant?!?!!) I really liked the jump scenes as well btw, the first time it was just plain horrible, but the second one was hideous, especially as she crawls up the stairwell! You're right about her surviving though, I put it down to the comment the dead wife makes about "refusing to let her die", which suggested that was how she was still alive.

SPOILERS END
I'd give it more of a 7.5 /10 or maybe an 8, it's no classic, but I did find it engrossing and I'm glad I watched it. And of course it'd be a strange world if we agreed on everything, I'm glad you didn't really hate it, anyway!

[Wayne]

I'm glad you've liked the trilogy as a whole, anyway.

I'd give it more of a 7.5 /10 or maybe an 8, it's no classic, but I did find it engrossing and I'm glad I watched it. And of course it'd be a strange world if we agreed on everything, I'm glad you didn't really hate it, anyway!

Indeed!
Thanks again for the comprehensive reply, Alex.
I suppose i felt that the tangent that they decided to go off on for 'Eye 2' wasn't as effective as that of the original movie. And because the original movie had such an impact, emotionally & otherwise, i just felt that this film didn't live up to that. (Although, i agree the jump scenes were well done, if a bit grim)
I suppose that's the nature of most sequels though, But without giving anything away, I was much more taken with 'The Eye Infinity', which i thought was way more eerie, overall.

[Wayne]

Well, i've just watched The Grudge, & overall i enjoyed it, but i do have some mixed feelings about it. First of all, it definitely borrows heavily from 'The Ring'.......

SPOILERS BELOW


.......specifically with an attempt to visually recreate Sadako, at least superficially. Basically, what we've got here is a Sadako copy, except she doesn't wear her hair over her face & she crawls instead of walks. Ok, there's a bit more to it than just that, because we have another ghostly character involved, in the young boy who is also used throughout the film, & then there's the husband character, although he doesn't appear until near the end of the film.
For the the first half of the film, i was thinking 'Wow, this is excellent!' It pretty much hits the ground running, & gets straight in there with the spooky stuff within the first 15mins, & continues on with some really eerie scenes that definitely gets the hairs on the back of the neck prickling as we go through the perspectives of the different characters.
Pound for pound, this film has a lot more scary scenes in it than 'The Ring', But the only problem IMO, is that by the time you get 45mins to an hour into the film, the continual 'scare scenes' gradually start to have slightly less effect. Where the film fails slightly compared to 'The Ring' IMO, is that it doesn't build you up gradually. Not only in terms of sheer suspense, but also in terms of gradually uncovering a little bit more of the mystery as you go along. 'The Grudge' is film which is hung together with a series of set pieces, which use a series of different characters all being effected by the same phenomena, & the reasons why it's all happening are given away too early in the film. What the film does, it does very well indeed. Some of the stuff is extremely effective, & downright spooky. The scene where the ex-cop is watching the replay of the security tape, springs to mind, & later when he's found in a terrified state by the two policemen, & the camera pans round to the Sadako copy crawling down the steps towards them. Brrrrr! But in terms of building a plot that keeps the viewer hooked as each layer of the story is gradually unpeeled, it fails a bit in that regard IMO, & turns into a film that relies more on a string of individual scenes that are essentially the same. But sometimes, as a wise man once said, less can be more.
However, one of the key scenes towards the end of the film where the Sadako rip-off is slowly crawling & creaking down the stairs towards Rika, is incredibly effective, & brilliantly shot. Also, the clicking noise which goes with the attacks all adds to the hair raising feel.
The only other slight downer is that i did feel that the end of the film was a bit of an anti-climax. The appearance of the murderous father who merely walked outstretched with bloodied hands, just wasn't very scary after the various chilling appearances the ghostly boy & the downright freaky mother, IMO.

End of Spoilers

So ok, not as good 'The Ring' at least IMO, despite the obvious Sadako influence. But in spite of my reservations, i do think it's a good film, & one that's certainly worthy of my collection. Some of the scenes are absolutely spine tingling, & there are certainly no slow patches in what is a fairly relentless film that doesn't really let up from start to finish.
So tomorrow night for me, It's the sequel: 'Grudge 2'.

[Matthew T]

I bought The Eye and The Eye 2 thanks to this thread! Couldn't get The Eye: Infinity, but it's cheap on Play.

I've seen the remake of The Grudge, it was OK, but I found it a bit disappointing and confusing.

[Wayne]

I bought The Eye and The Eye 2 thanks to this thread! Couldn't get The Eye: Infinity, but it's cheap on Play.

I've seen the remake of The Grudge, it was OK, but I found it a bit disappointing and confusing.

Give us your thoughts when you've watched 'em.

'The Grudge' re-make is the only one i'm waiting for now. Sendit still haven't got it in stock, but it's the cheapest on-line option, bar eBay. I'm watching 2 copies of it on eBay at the moment, so Sendit have got 4 days left before i cancel if they don't get it together by then.
Yeah, i got 'The Eye Infinity' off Play for 7.99. Well worth it!

[Wayne]

Well, i've just watched 'The Grudge 2', & this has replaced 'The Eye 2' as the weakest of the Asian horrors i've seen so far. Why? Well, the first hour of was basically just re-run of 'The Grudge', but with different characters, & not as much scary/spooky content. Whereas 'The Grudge' is pretty full on, - the sequel was relatively sparse, & basically there was nothing new going on, It was pure repetition. Yes, there were a few jumpy bits, as there is in virtually any horror film, but the shock value was minimised drastically by the fact i'd seen it all before in the first film, & for the most part, the scenes weren't as surprising or even as effective as the first one.
Ok, it's fair to say that most sequels are never as good, but most sequels at least try to develop things in a different direction, or delve deeper into it's own mythos, but this was just more of the same.
In the last half hour, though.......


SPOILERS BELOW

....... the film did try to take on a bit of a slant, with the fact that the main character who's pregnant, was 'mysteriously' the only one who came into contact with the haunted house that didn't die. Although it wasn't hard to guess that the reason for this was because the Sadako rip-off was somehow going to be re-born via the woman's pregnancy.
Also roundabout this point, things began to get really confusing. Particularly with the schoolgirl character who got a job as an extra on the film set. The story kept jumping backwards & forwards in time, & it kept alternating so often between dream sequences & reality, that i didn't know which was which, or at what point in time we were supposed to be at, or anything! It was all over the place! I didn't know what the hell was going on!
The birthing sequence was really good though, i must admit, even though it was obvious that she was gonna give birth to the Sadako copy, it was still really effective.
In the final scenes, we jump forward a few years & see the re-born Sadako copy as a little girl. Here, the director must surely be paying deliberate hommage to 'The Ring', - Because the little girl, who kills her 'mother' by pushing her down some steps, is wearing her long black forward over her face in pure Sadako style, & there's even a shot we she suddenly turns to face the camera, & we see the single widened eye staring out wildly from a slight gap in her hair, in a blatant recreation of the famous shot from 'Ringu' that was used on the cover of the original Japanese release. The film finishes almost immediately after this shot, as the little girl leaves the mother dead at the foot of the bridge, & walks off by herself.......

End of Spoilers

So, a few good bits, & one really memorable scene, but ultimately a disapponting sequel that only adds a new twist on what's already been done, right near the end of the film.

The Grudge - 7.5/10
The Grudge 2 - 5.5/10 (I should really give a 5/10, but that particular scene is worth an extra half mark.

That now leaves me just waiting for the american re-make of 'The Grudge', before i can really continue on this thread, But hopefully there may be some views from Ralph, Alex, & Matt in the coming week.