Which Monster Next to Return - Yeti or Ice Warriors?

[Rob McCow]

Following on from Candon and Hadoke's debate in this month's DWM, what do we all think on this vital issue? Should the New Series bring back the Ice Warriors? Or the Yeti? Or both or neither? What would you do to bring them back?

For me, the answer for both of these is 'It Depends'. Both of them have the potential to either be stock monsters or a fascinating new addition to the New Series menagerie.

The New Adventures and Big Finish have both shown just how incredibly dull the Ice Warriors can be. They are almost identitcal to the Silurians in several ways, being a scaly green militaristic race who have fallen from power, albeit from Mars rather than under the Earth. But then the Silurians have been a bit of a success, mostly where they have been given their own personality.

The Ice Warrior mask could also be very restricting if they keep the Viking-style helmet. You wouldn't get the excellent use of the half-mask that you would with Draconians for example.

As far as I'm aware, the Yeti have only returned to plague the planet Earth in the shockingly bizarre 'Downtime', where a quest for 'The Truth' leads to yellow baseball caps and strange dreams of Victoria Waterfield on a beach.

The Yeti have potential, but they were only ever the pawns of The Great Intelligence. There's no reason why the Intelligence shouldn't use other pawns in its quest to fill the Universe with goo. In fact, for the Yeti to return at any location outside of Ancient Tibet would be a bit anachronistic. It made sense in The Web Of Fear as it was a re-activated Yeti that caused all the trouble. But to be honest it might as well be robotic cows that menace the population of Earth.

On the other hand, the Yeti are a fantastic monster, combining lumbering unstoppability with furry cuteness. It'd be a sure-fire toy range hit too!

So what do you think? Yeti - Ice Warriors - or nothing?

[Anthony Williams]

Honestly, I hope neither.

Frankly, I still don't rate the way in which the Silurians came back. For two reasons - a) they look like green Jem'Hadar, and b) they really were portrayed as a bunch of clichés in the story where they returned. I really thought that it was badly done, and a real low-point in what was the otherwise very strong Series 5.

Now, as to the Yeti and the Ice Warriors... well, let's take everyone's favourite asthmatic villains first. The Ice Warriors - I haven't seen the Peladon stories in an age, so I can't really comment on them, as I don't remember them all that well. BUT, in the two Troughton stories that they were in, they were great lumbering things, with pretty poor plans. They've been brought back time and time again by Big Finish, who've never been able to do anything good with them. Perhaps I'm just jaded by Big Finish's efforts, but I really don't rate them.

As for the Yeti... well, there's little doubt that The Web of Fear is one of the greatest missing stories. From what we've heard, the Yeti were absolutely terrifying, and the Great Intelligence even creepier. They would be the one I preferred, but I'm not sure how well they could be handled in this modern age. The one real flaw with that one story was that, as Steve said, why did the Great Intelligence use Yeti in London? Surely it could've used something slightly less inconspicuous!

So, in all, I'd prefer neither. Frankly, I would like a series of the new series without a single returning monster from the classic series. But, if they HAVE to bring back one that we haven't yet had, I'd prefer the Zygons or the Krynoids...

[Rob McCow]

Good point, both the Zygons and Krynoids seem to have more potential.

Now, I've heard that Chris Chibnall is writing two episodes of the new series. Seeing as how he succesfully (?) brought back the Silurians, perhaps he is bringing back both the Yeti and Ice Warriors for the 50th Anniversary?

[SiHart]

There are rumours one of them is coming back next year... very strong rumours...

I'd like to see the Yeti return of the two, paired with The Great Intelligence. That could be fun and it'd be great if they were somehow still twisted up with the Travers family. The novel Millenial Rites had a very scared Anne as its main character, dreading the day the Great Intelligence would return. That was rather awesome and could be something they could do nicely, . There's lots of potential.
And the Yeti could be very scary! I don't see what the problem was with the yeti in the underground- it was a lovely juxtapoistion of images- the unexpected in an unexpected place- very Doctor Who!

[J.R. Southall]

I have heard vastly unconfirmed rumours about both of these two - and to my mind, the fact that DWM have flagged them both up would seem to suggest we will get both.

However, I'm with Anthony; I can't really see a huge potential in either. The only way the Yeti would work would be in an American set Sasquatch story (and they can't really be going back there, can they?), although a foggy Yorkshire coastal village in the long past would certainly make for an atmospheric setting.

I guess there's a little more milage to be wrung from the Ice Warriors though. If you can avoid their lumbering gait and deathly speech patterns, you can maybe make them work.

My fingers are crossed for the Draconians, really. Or a proper Auton story.

[Andrew Curnow]

As a kid I really loved both the Yeti books, and was sooo excited when one popped up in The Five Doctors. But... I'm not sure the back story makes much sense, if a new series episode has to have the Doctor explain "The formless Great Intelligence uses robots disguised as mute, hairy Yeti" because the obvious reply from any companion is surely, "Really? Why??!!!" It's just such an odd idea, as fans we sort of take it for granted but it is an odd choice of robot servant (other than in Tibet, granted).

[J.R. Southall]

As a kid I really loved both the Yeti books, and was sooo excited when one popped up in The Five Doctors. But... I'm not sure the back story makes much sense, if a new series episode has to have the Doctor explain "The formless Great Intelligence uses robots disguised as mute, hairy Yeti" because the obvious reply from any companion is surely, "Really? Why??!!!" It's just such an odd idea, as fans we sort of take it for granted but it is an odd choice of robot servant (other than in Tibet, granted).

Quite so. Which is why I was hoping the Yeti rumours were going to be tied-in with an American trip... but how wrong I was!

[Mike Saville]

While I agree that the Ice Warriors haven't been particularly well realised in the past, and they haven't really brought anything to the show that other monsters could do just as well, I also remember the buzz around Waters of Mars and how disappointed many were that the Ice Warriors didn't make the anticipated appearance. I also rate that as one of the best stories ever, and think that in such a setting the Ice Warriors could be done well.

If they did, I'd want little more than a tweak to their appearance though. I didn't like the radical departure in the appearance of the Silurians (and granted, they did say they were a subspecies), and the Ice Warriors are no less practical in appearance than the daleks were until Dalek. They can be given an air of real menace with setting and plot.

The yeti I never really bought into. As has been mentioned, they were just anachronistic in the wrong way, and I'm not hankering for a childhood reminder of them.

Autons done well, yes please. Zygons, definitely.

[Junkyard]

I have heard vastly unconfirmed rumours about both of these two - and to my mind, the fact that DWM have flagged them both up would seem to suggest we will get both.

However, I'm with Anthony; I can't really see a huge potential in either. The only way the Yeti would work would be in an American set Sasquatch story (and they can't really be going back there, can they?), although a foggy Yorkshire coastal village in the long past would certainly make for an atmospheric setting.

I guess there's a little more milage to be wrung from the Ice Warriors though. If you can avoid their lumbering gait and deathly speech patterns, you can maybe make them work.

My fingers are crossed for the Draconians, really. Or a proper Auton story.

I agree with most of this. The Yeti would not work unless the story was set in Tibet or NW America (Sasquatch). But the Great Intelligence using some other type of disguised robots? That might have possibilities.

The Ice Warriors also might work if the story gave them more personality, otherwise no.

The Draconians...now there's an idea!

[Nyder]

Bring back Alpha Centauri. We need to ramp up the camp in New Who :-)

[Larry]

. BUT, in the two Troughton stories that they were in, they were great lumbering things,..

Yes they were but just like with the Cybermen and Silurians, the Ice Warriors, will almost certainly get a radical new series make over and chances are they will look very different to how they loked back then. My betting is (assuming they keep the armour) that it will be a much slimmer version and possibably more along the lines of how the Ice Lords looked. We've had nearly all of the major recurring foes appear in the new series so it's now onl logical that the Ice Warriors are brought back they have always been a favorite of mine so I'm delighted to hear these rumours of their return.

[Si Hunt]

What they did with the Silurians was to destroy a great design/concept and make them into reptile warriors; the design took away from the distinctive Doctor Who feel and leaned more towards Star Trek. I hope they don't do that again, and if they do they just call them something new.

The Ice Warriors were pretty dull but could always be made exciting... again, provided they keep the iconic design. The green lizard skin under a battle armour is still a great idea.

The Yeti are actually the most absurd monster in Doctor Who lore, but they sort of hide in plain site and nobody can see it. The reason is that they were designed and solely purposed for their debut story, in the Himalayas. They have no life beyond that. The furry Yeti in a setting like the London Underground actually makes no sense... which may be partly why it worked, but if they come back a third time someone is going to end up asking why they look like Himalayan mythical monsters. I mean, there needs to be a reason.

The Autons are still my favourite, and present a world of untapped potential. We live in a world full of everyday plastic objects, yet the ones we have seen turned into evil killers you could count on one hand..

Si.

[Mike Saville]

They could introduce a green, cold blooded alien that the doctor doesn't recognise... until later in the episode when they don their wargear. That could, done well, be the new series Earthshock moment.

[Stuart Wallis]

The Yeti don't neccessarily have to look like that, since reports from realworld Tibet describe them as more humanoid and apelike. Perhaps they could do them something like that. (And yes, I have heard of the Ogrons!)

[Terry Leptil]

Well, the Ice Warriors were supposed to return in series 3 but they never did. Personally, I'd like to see them come back.

Now, I like the Ice Warriors but then I like the Yeti. But which is better? There's only one way to find out...

FIGHT!!!

[Anthony Williams]

They could introduce a green, cold blooded alien that the doctor doesn't recognise... until later in the episode when they don their wargear. That could, done well, be the new series Earthshock moment.

THAT would be a way to do it well! But I suspect that Moffat doesn't have that level of subtlety...

[J.R. Southall]

THAT would be a way to do it well! But I suspect that Moffat doesn't have that level of subtlety...

Blimey, you say this of the man who wrote Blink, The Empty Child, Silence in the Library and The Girl in the Fireplace?!

[Mike Saville]

THAT would be a way to do it well! But I suspect that Moffat doesn't have that level of subtlety...

That's alright. I'd just let Neil Gaiman write it.

[Anthony Williams]

Blimey, you say this of the man who wrote Blink, The Empty Child, Silence in the Library and The Girl in the Fireplace?!

I do indeed. I don't believe that there's much subtlety in any of those stories! Certainly, I think that Blink and The Empty Child are marvellous stories, but not subtle.

[Junkyard]

Whilst looking through David Warners' website, I noticed that he is currently involved in filming for this latest series of Dr Who. There is, of course, no hint as who, or what, he is appearing as. However, his page on Wikipedia does have an entry in his TV filmography as follows;

Year Series Role
2013 Doctor Who Ice Lord

I don't know about you, but I think this is a strong hint!

[Dino]

But Wikipedia can be altered without anything like facts getting in the way.

*Thinks about the time his friend added him and a few others to the line up of So Solid Crew

Another vote for the Autons from here, please! And if we're sticking to the topic, then I'll go for the Ice Warriors. David Warner or not.

[Stuart Wallis]

He's making a new record with Jedward, didn't you know ? Ice lord Baby.

Or something...

[Rob McCow]

I'd still rather have Sil or the Haemovores back. I'd love to see the Parliament of Mentors!

[Dave Tudor]

2013 Doctor Who Ice Lord

His IMDb page has appearing in episode 8 of the new series as a 'Boffin'.

[Anthony Williams]

Both Wikipedia and IMDB are easily edited by the public at large - and subject to rumourmongers and hoaxters! I wouldn't read too much into anything you see on those, regarding guest stars and who they'll be playing!