Tesco burgers...

[Jason Thompson]

Is DNA testing a routine thing for burgers, or was it a whistleblower?

It started when the local police were hunting for the McDonald's Hamburglar and spiraled from there...

(I'll get me coat again...)

[Jason Thompson]

More seriously, I did some reading around this story and it seems that DNA testing is not a routine thing for meat products (though it may be from now on!). DNA testing is normally used to provide traceability from animal to supermarket shelf, and it seems that this is mainly used in the event of customer complaints or health issues.

In this case it seems (and this is just my interpretation of a few of the news stories, so open to correction if anyone hears or knows more detail) that the tests were carried out because there was some concern from the FSA that certain products were not as traceable as others, and so they tested them. They seem to have only set out to identify where the meat came from in terms of who was supplying it. The finding that a significant portion of the meat actually came from a different animal entirely appears to have been a surprise, and not what they were orignially setting out to find out.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

The moral of the story - don't be religious, and then you don't mind so much.

[Jason Thompson]

I hope that's a facetious comment. I am not religious, and I most certainly do mind.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

semi-facetious

[WhiteCrowNZ]

Just stick with the Soylent Green burger's for now

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[MinaHarker]

So it seems that there is some issue about the veterinary drugs used in horses being unsuitable for animals which are to be consumed by humans...

[Zbigniev Hamson]

But... more than likely not.

[MinaHarker]

But... more than likely not.

What makes you say that?

It's certainly possible, maybe even likely: http://uspca.co.uk/the-truth-about-irish-horsemeat/

[Zbigniev Hamson]

I'm not sure which part of that site is supposed to be relevant....

But to me it just seems like another excuse for hysteria - some drugs used on horses MAY be unsafe for humans, some of the horses that ended up in food MAY have had these drugs administered to them, but even if they have presumably it would have had to have been quite close to their death if it were still going to be in their system to get into the food, not forgetting that that drug will have been spread throughout the entire 500kg of the horse's mass, of which approximately 0.1% will be in any individual portion of food, meaning any "dose" ingested by a human is going to be miniscule, etc etc etc.

I'm not saying "hey, let's all play fast and loose with food safety standards", but at the same time I think keeping a healthy perspective on the risk is probably a good idea.

[MinaHarker]

I'm not sure which part of that site is supposed to be relevant....

The part which explains that the horse passport system is completely messed up with fraud everywhere. A false horse passport would mean an animal never intended for slaughter could end up in the food chain. If it had not originally been intended for slaughter, then it could be given drugs that would contaminate meat for human consumption (which are banned by law for "eating" animals).

But to me it just seems like another excuse for hysteria - some drugs used on horses MAY be unsafe for humans, some of the horses that ended up in food MAY have had these drugs administered to them, but even if they have presumably it would have had to have been quite close to their death if it were still going to be in their system to get into the food, not forgetting that that drug will have been spread throughout the entire 500kg of the horse's mass, of which approximately 0.1% will be in any individual portion of food, meaning any "dose" ingested by a human is going to be miniscule, etc etc etc.

I'm not saying "hey, let's all play fast and loose with food safety standards", but at the same time I think keeping a healthy perspective on the risk is probably a good idea.

The drugs are, however, banned due to health concerns and such lax attitudes in food production need to be dealt with.

[Zbigniev Hamson]

The part which explains that the horse passport system is completely messed up with fraud everywhere. A false horse passport would mean an animal never intended for slaughter could end up in the food chain. If it had not originally been intended for slaughter, then it could be given drugs that would contaminate meat for human consumption (which are banned by law for "eating" animals).

Yes I read that part, but it didn't appear to make any specific mention of drugs.

Surely the main concern is that they're putting horse meat into things that aren't even supposed to contain horse meat in the first place though? Whether or not they're correctly checking the quality of that horse meat is surely a secondary issue. Sort out proper checks and regulation to prevent the first part happening and the second part isn't even an issue (unless you're in France/Italy/wherever and ordering horse, but that's a separate issue).

[Jason Thompson]

Yes I read that part, but it didn't appear to make any specific mention of drugs.

Why would it need to? Surely that's implicit in the whole idea of having a 'horse passport' that allows you to trace the animal and its history. That would necessarily include things like whether it had had any drugs unsafe for human consumption administered.

Surely the main concern is that they're putting horse meat into things that aren't even supposed to contain horse meat in the first place though?

Of course it is. These other issues regarding the quality of the meat are significant, though. Surely, as bad as having the horsemeat where it shouldn't be is, the idea that said horsemeat (an unknown proportion of which has already been consumed by now) may not even have been safe for human consumption in the first place makes it even worse?

[Zbigniev Hamson]

It does, but my two points are:

A) If there isn't even any system in place to stop certain factories putting the wrong ANIMAL into their foodstuffs, then a tightened up passport system for that wrong animal isn't really going to have any effect. They're hardly going to turn down their supply of illegal, cheap horse meat that they're not supposed to be using anyway, just because it's not certified properly. That would be like a drug dealer refusing to buy more stock from his supplier because he doesn't trust his medical certificates.

B) As much as it may technically be "unsafe", it only takes a little thought to show that the risks of anybody out there getting into any trouble after ingesting 0.01 mg of some drug that probably isn't even present in the food is... minimal. Not saying don't be aware of it, just saying let's not have a massive tabloid panic about the possibility.

[Jon Masters]

Watching all the ridiculously hyped up news reports, it made me wonder today whether waiting rooms across the country were full of concerned people who (a) ate processed meat and (b) believed in homeopathy

ETA good to see someone managed to drag Prof Hugh 'we'll all die of BSE' Pennington back into the news studios.

[Nyder]

Have they also dragged Edwina Currie back to talk about eggs?