Rate and Discuss: Nightmare in Silver

[SiHart]

The Doctor's second best enemies are back, and we're not going to get emotional are we?

What did you think of Nightmare in Silver?

[J.R. Southall]

Ouch! Starburst review, and Blue Box Podcast. Not for the faint of heart!

[Paul Monk]

That was enjoyable but nothing special. Good performance from Matt but Mr. Gaiman certainly won't be winning any awards this year.

[Paul Monk]

Oh and Borg anyone?

[SiHart]

Well...

That was brilliant.

And it was also not very good.

I loved the new Cybermen. It was clever how the idea of the Cybermen becoming better and better was used, and it felt true to their nature that they would learn and evolve and become more and more powerful as time goes on. It's the only logical outcome for them, and it does what Neil Gaiman wanted- makes them scary again. I'd have loved more of them creeping around, taking people for upgrade, because those were the scenes that shone in this episode, and were the things that originally scared me about the Cybermen when I was little.

But, it was tainted by the Cyber-Planner/ Doctor scenes. They should have been brilliant and I could see Matt Smith was giving it his all. An evil Doctor should have worked better than this, but somehow it didn't quite come alive. I think, maybe, it was all the grand standing from Matt Smith, all those "Mr Clever" dancing bits that failed. The things about the Cybermen is that they're still, and emotionless. They could have made that work, as this physical Doctor is subdued by the Cyber Planner, losing more of the things that make him him... instead we got more of the same, only slightly different and it didn't feel effective.
That said, the scenes in the Doctor's brain were lovely and quite nicely done (loved, as always, seeing the other Doctors in well chosen publicity photos!)

So Good, just not as great as it could have been.

[Si Hunt]

I liked that a whole lot more than I thought I would, and more than other people seemed to (we watched it on delay) and more than Radio Times did. But there were a few major things that could have been better.

This time Neil Gaiman seems to have gone for doing a traditional Cyber Story, which I think will have disappointed some people as his last story was so original.

I loved the new look Cybermen, sleeker and better than before. The Cybermites were brilliant as well. Didn't mind the kids, thought they were fine. I liked the various different new Cyber ideas - the hand getting detached and attacking someone for example. The Cyberman playing chess was a brilliant bit of imagery. The use of conversion was well done. It had lots of nice moments which is what we've been lacking lately. The shot of the millions of Cybermen stretching off into the distance was awesome. I liked the Cybermen attacking via the moat, but we SHOULD have seen more of this. Where was the shot of them swimming along, or rising out of the water?

Now the big problems. Why was the Cyberplanner manic and evil and cruel and all the other things that Cybermen arn't? It should have been cold and emotionless and heartless. Also I didn't like the device of the Doctor's personality keeping splitting between them, largely because they introduced that bloke who swiftly got converted and could have been the embodiment of the Cyberplanner... then he just stood by doing nothing while Matt Smith horsed around with himself like Rod Hull and Emu. Unfortunately, for the first time ever the last two stories have seen me getting a bit fed up of the over-the-top, unsubtle performance Smith gives these days. It comes over a bit too much like someone you want to tell to just shut up.

Second big problem was the ending. Warwick Davis was great, but how in this day and age can a writer justify a plot device where-by one of the characters can suddenly announce that he can teleport them all to safety in 5 seconds and end the story? Why didn't he do this earlier? Like, as soon as the bomb was unveiled? Isn't this just the most awful bit of writing. I felt really cheated of a proper ending.

I suspect I enjoyed this story more than most people - great visuals, great Cybermen, it's heart, soul and ethos were in the right place. It just felt like there were a couple of really ropey decisions in there.

I found my most overriding feeling at the moment - which is testament to both the strengths and weaknesses of this story - is that I dearly hope these new Cybermen return soon in a story that fully realises their potential.

Si.

[Larry]

First off what was the point of those annoying children there was not even any explanation as to Why The Doctor would even take them on a trip in the TARDIS, r. when I saw photos of the re designed Cybermen I was really looking forward to this episode but now I've seen it I'm left feeling very underwhelmed with it.

[Andrew Curnow]

Just watched it now... and not sure what to make of it. I hate to say, but it's yet another script this year that somehow feels in need of one last proper polish - and like Si, I wonder why Porridge didn't just save them all from the get-go. If it leapt out on first viewing, I'd say that's a failure.

I liked Smith in his 'dual role' scenes, but yes it seemed very bizarre to have a very 'emotional' Cyber-personality - and in fact, I thought the resolution was going to be the reveal that in fact the Doctor has deliberately 'contaminated' the Cyber Controller with emotions so as to defeat him.

I definitely didn't like the bit with the gold ticket - after 25 years moaning about the gold coins in Silver Nemesis, this was even worse!!!!!

I enjoyed it, though, and enjoyed the new Cybermen - but not as good as Gaiman's first outing. But a story that I think I'll actually enjoy more on re-watching.

[Junkyard]

I find myself agreeing with the comments given in previous posts. Brilliant in some parts, weak in others. The re-designed Cybermen are an improvement and I like the Cybermites (little devils!). But what was the point of the kids? Gemma-Louise was great but Tamzin Outhwaite was wasted.

[Andrew Curnow]

More little niggles keep coming to me I'm afraid - the Cyber-Chess thing was clearly a steal from the real Silver Turk, so surely we should have had the Doctor talking about that to Clara and the kids, and thus deducing the presence of Porridge rather than just soniccing it.

And... if you want to give your characters stupid names like Porridge, that's fine - but you should surely let your other characters behave like real people. Wouldn't the kids (at least!) have laughed when they found out his name? Or did I miss that? Just seems very weird, to me anyway, for people from modern-day Earth to casually talk about somebody called Porridge as if that's a name.

The other thing that occurs to me now is, did the Doctor actually encounter any Cybermen (other than the first appearance when it kidnaps the girl)? His character seemed to be in a quite separate story, whereas I'd rather have liked to see him squaring up to the Cybermen face to face.

In fact, I know now what it sort of reminded me of - it's more like a comic strip than a TV story. A wacky theme part setting, sequences inside the Doctor's head, a platoon of easily recognisable/drawable characters (the thin one with glasses, the fat one, the nervous girl, the ballsy leader - in fact, was this whole thing some kind of homage to Police Academy?).

Odd, very odd.

[Nyder]

Thanks to all the negative reviews before the programme aired, I actually enjoyed this story more than I thought I would.

I agree with Si Hart - there could have been a lot more atmosphere generated by the Cybermen skulking around darkened rooms and really ramping up the tension. I liked the fact that they didn't speak very much (sorry Mr Briggs!) - they're far more menacing that way.

When I first saw that glass bell jar, did anyone think the same as me? I was thinking Morphotons!!

[Dino]

I didn't have access to a laptop yesterday. So I managed to watch the episode twice last night!
The first time I saw it I was disappointed. The kids, the idea that the Doctor was the only one in history to have visited the Chess attraction to check if there was something underneath!!

I really thought it was the worst Doctor performance I'd ever seen in Matt Smith.

But then I watched it for a second and time and... IT FITS!!
Borg Schmorg of course! It was a pretty good stand off.
So points off for the kids. Clara didn't win me this week either.
Guests were good. Child actors weren't. I didn't expect Warwick's role. And I certainly hope there's an end of series explanation for that child working it out!
But a huge massive point off for using the shittiest Seventh Doctor picture! There were dozens of screencaps they could have chosen of him looking moody!

Some rubbish dialogue as well. A huge step down from The Doctor's Wife.
Loved the concept. Top 3 Matt Smith Doctor moment.
Shame it was the biggest saving grace of what could have been a more claustrophobic tale where "NOT EVERYBODY DIES!!"

And I did like the design and new tricks of the Cybermen as well.

So lucky to be 6 on first watch, struggling to get past 7 on the second.

[Perry Vale]

Finally, another 'Earthshock' moment arrives, as I was completely oblivious to the Cybermen's return, and their Ex-cel-lent redesign.

Wonderful stuff from start to finish, bar a few naff lines in the script for Porridge towards the end. I can't agree that this was a "traditional" Cybermen story. Gaiman did the same trick as before, imo, changing the rules to make a better story. The Time Lords all being dead didn't stop him in TDW, and this time The Doctor being 'immune' to Cyber control was rewritten to deliver a gripping story (the first time for the Cybermen in NuWho, imo).

An easy 9/10 from me, but I'll watch it again before deciding on my vote.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm intrigued Steve - do you not even watch the 'Next Time' trailers, to avoid spoilers? Just curious, as obviously (or not, I suppose, if you don't watch them) the Cybermen were liberally sprinkled over the trailer at the end of last week's ep.

[Perry Vale]

I'm intrigued Steve - do you not even watch the 'Next Time' trailers, to avoid spoilers?

Of course not! Why would I, I'm going to be watching it anyway (as I have done for the last 40 ish years), I don't need a trailer to hook me in. I can wait a whole week...

[Si Hunt]

You must have to be damn quick on the Pause button.

Si.

[Perry Vale]

Very quick!

[Llordllama]

Sadly lacking a 0.5 as this one for me lay somewhere between 7 and 8. It had the feel of a classic series story, and as a result could have benifited from decompressing into two episodes. I feel Porridge in particular was short-changed, as more screen time would have made his revelation a bit more impressive (plus Warwick Davis was just smashing!). For the second week in a row I could also see Clara as a real character, and not Amy-lite, which was all to the show's benefit.

Loved everything Matt did, but couldn't help feel that the plot could have done with a bit more of a polish. Didn't quite zing as much as Neil's last story, and so as much as I did enjoy it I didn't enjoy it as much as I hoped I would. Maybe on a second watching it'll improve for me.

Oh, and feel free to fridge the kids ASAP for some dramatic pathos and I'll add one point to any story this happens in. Even if it has River Song in it.

Doctor WHeasel's thoughts on the episode - animated over here.

[Si Hunt]

It's interesting that Steve enjoyed it so much. I remember thinking, if the Cybermen had been a surprise it would have been terrific. But, with all respect to Steve, I don't think it would be possible for me to avoid pre-publicity like that, without shutting myself off from Facebook, all websites, twitter etc. etc.

Si.

[Perry Vale]

Oh yes, I can see how difficult it could be for others, especially some of you here who socialise to a much greater extent with other fans than I do. It's not as difficult as I once thought though, for me at least.

The Next Time trailers are easy. You know when the episode is ending, and just have to have the remote handy.

Thanks to modern PVRs, I don't really watch any live tv any more, so am not exposed to trailers between shows either. I don't use TV guide publications any more (for the same reason), and know not to cast my eyes on those shelves in newsagents.

Facebook (and Twitter) is more difficult, for sure, although I noticed with interest a news story on the BBC this week about a woman who has written some code for Twitter that claims to remove spoilers about her favourite shows (and reckons it should be straightforward to modify for FB).

I'm not advocating it to anyone, but it has paid off in spades for me, and I can't fail to notice the disappointment from others on these threads on many occasions where their expectations have been built up in advance on things - where I'm finding them hugely enjoyable. Even titles can affect what you build up in your head before watching. I happened on Paul Monk's FB post last night, and just averted my eyes before the episode title sunk in (and I've no problem with this Paul - it's my choice to have your posts in my feed). I watched the show minutes later, and if I'd had too much time to think on that, would possibly have guessed the Cyb's involvement.

[Paul Monk]

No problem Steve. To be fair I normally try to be vague in my summing up but I think I just needed to voice my disappointment.

[Dirk Gently]

I almost gave it a 9...but a couple of problems (which Si Hart covered above) brought the score down a bit.

But my enjoyment was not dampened by the niggles. I loved the kids getting sidelined halfway through the episode (best thing really).
I absolutely loved all the homage moments to past Cybermen stories, (Tomb, seen when they exit...well their tombs & Earthshock with the three columns of Cybermen walking towards the camera). I'm sure there are probably more moments I missed on first viewing but I felt this was a solid 8/10.

[Rob McCow]

WOW. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely loved that episode. Ten!

I'm firmly sitting in the 'What's not to like?' camp. The pacing was spot on, the visuals were astounding, I thought Matt Smith as the Cyberplanner/Doctor was simply brilliant, the new Cybermen were awesome, Clara got something to do, I loved the Emperor idea...

In fact, I've gone from not being sure about this season to being absolutely in love with it. Yeah, there's been a few shonky moments and Clara is the least distinctive companion since Nyssa, but they've created something absolutely unique and fresh with this show.

Hurrah!

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm really glad to read Tim & Rob's posts. I'm a bit 'meh' about this current run, enjoyed last year's half-dozen a lot more; but I'm always genuinely pleased to see such wide-ranging views, and to find that actually others are really loving it at the moment.

It still baffles & delights me in equal measure, even after all these years, that although we can all agree that Doctor Who is amazing, we can rarely if ever agree on which particular bits of Doctor Who are the most amazing!!

[Simon R]

The rungs (for want of a better word) on the walls were a clear homage to Tomb.