Who did John Hurt hurt?

[SiHart]

We've got a new incarnation of the Doctor (well, one not worthy of the name apparently, anyway) but who is he and what did he did?

Lets speculate!

[J.R. Southall]

It seems pretty obvious really, and the bigger surprise will be if Moffat goes somewhere else with it and it turns out that the Real 9's been ostracised by his successors for selling Avon door-to-door or something.

I just wonder if there's even the slightest possibility that the entire anniversary special might take place entirely in the Doctor's "subconscious", as that seems to be where The Name of the Doctor left everybody...

(We actually ended up spending about half an hour talking about this stuff on tomorrow night's Blue Box Podcast. Unintentionally.)

[Rob McCow]

Obviously he's the Doctor who fought in the Time War...

Except we know McGann is the eighth Doctor and Matt is the eleventh. But that's fine because John Hurt doesn't count. Or does he?

Or maybe he was the Doctor responsible for the Nostromo incident, after sticking his face in that egg?

I don't know how they're going to string out having John Hurt as an evil Doctor Who for 90 minutes, but I suppose we'll find out. If indeed he is 'Evil'? He looks rather sad and pensive in his ten seconds of screen time.

Just so long as he isn't Zagreus, I think we'll be fine.

[Andrew Curnow]

I'm not sure he is evil, in a moustache-twirling, cacklingly mad kind of way... More amoral perhaps?

I personally don't think the Anniversary Special will be Matt 'n' Dave versus John Hurt - bit like The End of Time, although it followed on from T'Waters of Mars, wasn't about a 'bad' tenth Doctor. Maybe the Special will be two Doctors uniting against a common foe, and finding they need a 'third' to win the day - maybe the story will be about the Doctor reconciling with himself, to the extent that by the time its finished we'll have to call Matt the twelfth Doctor, David the eleventh, etc...?

Or maybe not!

[shada pavlova]

I reckon the John Hurt Doctor is the Terrible Zodin.

[Rob McCow]

I reckon the John Hurt Doctor is Professor Peter Walmsley. Looks like a very knowledgeable fellow.

[Jon Masters]

It's obvious - he committed a crime so heinous that he was forced to flee Gallifrey, remain homeless and shunned by most sentient races until he felt driven to spend the rest of his lives helping the Universe to atone for his mistake.

He did the voice overs for the Sky TV adverts

[Rob McCow]

He did the voice overs for the Sky TV adverts

There are no greater crimes in our calendar, Vorus!

[Stuart Wallis]

Presumably he was forced to do something absolutely dire as the lesser of two evils. Either finish the Time War or become Prime Minister...

[SiHart]

I reckon the John Hurt Doctor is the Terrible Zodin.

What? A woman of rare guile and ruthless cunning?

[Stuart Wallis]

She's fooled Harry!

[SiHart]

Well she is Terrible, and a woman of rare guile and devillish cunning...

[Stuart Wallis]

Although I think dressing in PVC may have swayed it...

[shada pavlova]

<Insert innuendo based on the phrase "wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey" here>

[Andrew Curnow]

I don't fancy seeing anything covered in hair and hopping like a kangaroo in November.

[Dirk Gently]

So you won't be attending the November meet then? I had a new outfit planned and everything.

[Stuart Wallis]

Well as long as you wear the outfit...

[Perry Vale]

It seems pretty obvious really...

Obviously he's the Doctor who fought in the Time War...

I rewatched The Name Of The Doctor last night...

It's been bugging me that so many people (and I don't mean specifically on PS) have made up their mind that Hurt is a Time War Doctor. I don't understand where this comes from. Or actually, I do. It's something that some haven't been able to let go since 'Rose'.

From a personal viewpoint, I so hope this won't be the case. I honestly can't think of an interesting story that can, or needs to be told about the Time War. After TEoT, we now know all we need to about it, and I'll be seriously disappointed if such a momentous occasion as the 50th anniversary is wasted on a fanwanky Time War special.

Anyway, after rewatching last night, I'd like to speculate on another possibility. Hurt is a future Doctor. And as we now know Capaldi will be the 12th, this really just leaves.....the 13th. The last Doctor. Perhaps.

What if the last Doctor does something very bad, from selfish motives, to set up a brand new regeneration cycle for himself? So that he can go on? Such selfish motives might preclude him from taking the name of The Doctor.

Just think about Moffat, and his style of writing. Do you really think he's more likely to write an anniversary special about the Time War (something specifically created by another writer), or to use the 50th to set up (in some way) a whole new lease of life for the character, and show. He seems an arrogant, and smug writer (and I like this), I'm sure such a thing would be a big lure for him.

Even if I'm way off the mark here, I do think there are other clues contained within the episode that serve as pointers as to where this will go. TGI mentions that The Doctor will kill billions, and brings up other names for The Doctor such as Storm, The Beast and The Valeyard. Why choose, or use this episode to bring these things up? Why here? In an episode that ends with a Doctor that cannot take the name? Hmmm?

What do we think?

[Andrew Curnow]

It's good reasoning Steve, and I totally agree that actually I'd happily never hear a darned word about the Time War again... But I ought to cite the sledgehammering in of a reference to it in "Journey..." where Clara stumbles across a huge book about it. So I'm not sure the show, even under Moffat, is done with it.

There's also the question of how the Doctor could know about his future 'John Hurt' self. And as regards your suggestion that "the last Doctor does something very bad, from selfish motives" that kind of goes against Hurt's (admittedly rather vague) statement that "I did what I did without choice, in the name of peace and of sanity" which (to me anyway) implies something other than a 'simple' selfish act...?

Also, the cynic in me wonders whether the role taken by John Hurt might have originally been pencilled in for Eccleston as a real 'actory' bit of stuff to get his teeth into and thus lure him back - in which case it couldn't really be anything other than the Time War?

While we're on the subject of the last episode, though, I wonder (slightly off the subject) are we supposed to assume that the Doctor that is dead & buried on Trenzalore is the eleventh one or some future one? If the latter then what is all that guff about "the fall of the Eleventh" - surely after such a bad experience this time around, only an idiotic future Doctor would be dumb enough to revisit? I mean 'rose-tinted glasses' is one thing, but there's a limit...

[Perry Vale]

While we're on the subject of the last episode, though, I wonder (slightly off the subject) are we supposed to assume that the Doctor that is dead & buried on Trenzalore is the eleventh one or some future one? If the latter then what is all that guff about "the fall of the Eleventh" - surely after such a bad experience this time around, only an idiotic future Doctor would be dumb enough to revisit? I mean 'rose-tinted glasses' is one thing, but there's a limit...

I think poster SpaceGandalf was onto something in a thread elsewhere on PS.

Clara: How do we get down there (to Trenzelor)? Jump?

The Doctor: No, we fall.

The Tardis "falling" to the planet causes the crack in the Tardis window....

Fixed points in time, and all that, a future Doctor might have no choice but to be there again at some future date.

There's also the question of how the Doctor could know about his future 'John Hurt' self.

Well he knows about his future grave, I don't see why this would be a problem. You're being too linear with your thinking. Wibby-wobbly etc. etc.

I'd forgotten that bit from 'Journey' about the book, but I'd tried to block most of it out of my head as I found it a very disappointing episode! It might well still be a time war special, but can't help thinking it would have been hard to "sell" to BBC execs, who will surely want this to be the biggest, and best show in it's 50 years. Would a Time War fanwank special really sound very appealing to sell to a (hopeful) massive auduence, especially if they'd like to sell it to as many countries as possible (and potential new audiences and territories)? Rather that than some other epic tale that ends with setting up a whole new regeneration cycle that will give the show another 50 years to explore?

I just find it difficult to get away from the fact TGI talks about other (future) names for The Doctor, in an episode called The Name Of The Doctor, with the episode ending (and leading into the 50th) with a "Doctor" who couldn't take the name.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Part of me would like to believe you're right Perry but the Hurt Doctor appeared in the Doctor's time stream. If he was a future incarnation it would've made sense for that to be indicated however specifically stating "He's my secret" and "He's the one who broke the promise" puts whatever happened into the past tense.
Also there were rumours circulating about Hurt playing the Time War Doctor several weeks prior to transmission when the anniversary ep was being filmed. However based on what else we know I don't think the war itself will play much of a part in the special.

[Andrew Curnow]

I just find it difficult to get away from the fact TGI talks about other (future) names for The Doctor, in an episode called The Name Of The Doctor, with the episode ending (and leading into the 50th) with a "Doctor" who couldn't take the name

That is a good point, Moffat doesn't often do things casually (I'm still half-expecting the title of River's first ever episode to have a deeper meaning...).

On the other hand, in terms of convincing BBC Execs, I don't expect they would really care about any 'need' to deal with the 12 regenerations comments, and nor would I expect Moffat to pitch an episode to them with the word 'fanwank'!

To be honest, I expect the BBC high-ups were sold on it being in 3-D and don't really care what happens in it...

[Andrew Curnow]

However based on what else we know I don't think the war itself will play much of a part in the special.

I thought I'd step in quickly just to say that Perry will have kept himself away from any and all information about the special, so best not to say any more on that score Richard...

...and actually, so far so have I other than seeing the names of those cast members filming on location a few months ago. So, to quote some flouncy-haired parallel-timestream wife of the Doctor, "Spoilers..."

[Logo Polish]

According to this website, a named member of the production, at least at the time the special was recorded, spoke to the Daily Telegraph in July about John Hurt's Doctor. If you click on where it says 'SPOILER: show', it should reveal what he's reported to have claimed.

http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/the-truth-b...aled-51082.htm

[Perry Vale]

Too late with the spoilers. Although perhaps these spoilers are coming from people who simply wish to see a Time War extravaganza to suit themselves. (Edit: posted before I noticed Logo's link that I will not be clicking on)

Part of me would like to believe you're right Perry but the Hurt Doctor appeared in the Doctor's time stream. If he was a future incarnation it would've made sense for that to be indicated however specifically stating "He's my secret" and "He's the one who broke the promise" puts whatever happened into the past tense.

Really? You've seen Moffat's version of the show before? There's no such thing as "past tense" in it. IMO.