US Spying Scandal

[Rob McCow]

The press at the moment seem obsessed with tracking down Edward Snowden, the man who revealed that America was collecting the phone records of millions of its citizens - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23123964

The original Guardian article is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...on-court-order

Even though Snowden has applied for asylum in Russia, Vladimir Putin has pitched in against Snowden, saying "He should cease his work aimed at damaging our American partners". Although in my opinion that horse has already bolted.

So, do you think Snowden should be returned to the US to face trial?

And is data-gathering of this nature something we should worry about, or is it only to be expected given the impact of modern technology?

[Perry Vale]

I don't know about Atlas, but sadly it seems the world has shrugged to this story. An eight page Jimmy Saville thread, but no replies to what surely, imo, is one of the most important stories to break this year.

Snowden is man of the year in my view, much moreso than the Pope who won accolades. He shouldn't be an outlaw, or facing trial, he should be seen as a hero for exposing our governments BREAKING THE LAW.

And yet after dozens and dozens of embarrassing cables/leaks about NSA/GCHQ, we learn that only 0.05% of Snowden's cables have so far been publsihed. What haven't we been told yet?!

[Mike Saville]

Snowdon is a traitor. A treasonous man who has betrayed the government to whom he swore fealty.

I applaud him 100%. Of course he hasn't come out with anything every conspiracy theorist didn't already know, but it is rather scary that when governments pursue him for his heinous revelations, the public seem as apathetic as ever to their invasions. I suppose in this Facebook generation people are happy to be dissected from their privacy and rights, and as such as a society we get exactly what we deserve. Sadly.

[Rob McCow]

A long, extended, public trial of Edward Snowden would be perfect really as it would air every single detail that he's uncovered.

I'm very impressed by the institutionalised hypocrisy of the US Govt viewpoint - we're spying on you, but we're not going to tell you and how dare you spy on us, spying on you?!

[Perry Vale]

and as such as a society we get exactly what we deserve. Sadly.

Indeed.

[Mike Saville]

They have to protect us from this global threat of terrorism of course. A convenient nationless enemy to be pointed at any convenient country we don't like the look of.

So my question is, since the erosion of our civil liberties, the prolonged detainment without charge under Prevention of Terrorism acts, the mass collection of our emails and monitoring of our calls, does everyone you all feel much safer in the world?

Yeah. Me too...

[Perry Vale]

The 36 mysterious days of Edward Snowden

I found this very interesting, as I have been asking the same question since the story broke. A different approach to all the news reporting so far, and worth a look. There's also some related links further down the article.

[Andrew Curnow]

I am probably very much at fault in not having followed this story all that closely, but I have to admit my reaction to it every time I read it is genuinely a sense of amazement. Granted his disclosures/leaks/whatever make clear that the US government has been, for want of a better description, eavesdropping when they shouldn't have been... but in this day and age I'm not at all surprised.

Frankly, I'd have been more amazed if he'd leaked something that showed that all governments are only listening in at an entirely appropriate level for a legitimate reason. Part jokingly I admit, but I've sometimes said to Zel in the past we'd better not swear to much in case GCHQ come round - in other words, like it or not, with the technology of the day, I've long assumed that 'the powers that be' are 'spying' (for want of a better word) on a gigantic scale.

Whether that's right or not, or what could/should be done about it, that's a whole different debate, but I am genuinely surprised that in some quarters Edward Snowden's revelations have been met with such shocked reactions.

As to the 36 days, that makes very interesting reading - but equally, one should always bear in mind that it's a mistake to underestimate how inept and disorganised some organisations can be. Don't automatically assume 'conspiracy' where 'stupidity' could also explain it.

[Perry Vale]

I am probably very much at fault in not having followed this story all that closely...

Probably not, in my view the mainstream media are hardly touching the story, only really covering the fugitive aspect to him.

but I have to admit my reaction to it every time I read it is genuinely a sense of amazement. Granted his disclosures/leaks/whatever make clear that the US government has been, for want of a better description, eavesdropping when they shouldn't have been... but in this day and age I'm not at all surprised.

Well, the best description is breaking the law (and the American Constitution). But again, I don't feel they're reflecting the story fairly. What these leaks continue to show, is that the NSA is spying for big business, giving them unfair advantages in global markets. Add to that the fact they're spying on memebers of Congress, it makes you wonder how susceptible that makes individuals to blackmail, for corporate gain.

As to the 36 days, that makes very interesting reading - but equally, one should always bear in mind that it's a mistake to underestimate how inept and disorganised some organisations can be. Don't automatically assume 'conspiracy' where 'stupidity' could also explain it.

Well, of course, but as I said, I wondered about all this from the beginning, and wondered why no-one else was asking those questions about him, when any good journalist would. Although we shouldn't let "stupidity" be used as a constant get out of jail free card, they are equally capable of being smart and dishonest.

[Perry Vale]

NSA, GCHQ scour Angry Birds, phone apps for compromising info on users

The US National Security Agency and its UK counterpart, GCHQ, have the ability to harvest sensitive personal data from phone apps that transmit users’ data across the web, such as the extremely popular Angry Birds game.

Along with obtaining information about the specific dimensions and model of an individual’s iPhone or Android, the intelligence agencies are also able to acquire details on that person’s age, gender, and location. Details about a user’s political affiliation, sexual orientation, and how promiscuous they are may also be vulnerable.

This information – which was revealed in dozens of top secret documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden – was first reported Monday by the Guardian in partnership with the New York Times and ProPublica.

Both the NSA and GCHQ are able to “piggyback” on third party advertisements that a user unwittingly brings onto their device when they first download an app. Those ads, along with geolocation information embedded in images a user uploads to a social media site like Facebook and Twitter, essentially pinpoints where an individual is in the world.

The slides published Monday by the Guardian also show that the intelligence behemoths can glean a person’s home country, current location, age, gender, zip code, marital status – with “single,” “married,” “divorced,” “swinger,” and more among the options – income, ethnicity, sexual orientation, education level, and number of children.

A more sophisticated effort collects location information by intercepting Google map queries from smartphones. It was deemed to be so successful that GCHQ noted in a 2008 document that it “effectively means that anyone using Google maps on a smartphone is working in support of a GCHQ system.”

[Perry Vale]

UK media alarmed by govt bill allowing seizure of journalists’ notes, files

UK media organizations have warned that if a government bill authorizing police to seize journalists' notebooks, photos and digital files is passed Monday, it could seriously endanger press freedom in the country.

Currently, requests for reporters’ notebooks and files must be made in open court, and representatives of news organizations are allowed to be present in the courtroom. However, if Clause 47 in Cabinet Office Minister Oliver Letwin's deregulation bill is passed February 3, secret hearings could authorize the seizure of journalists’ files.

Under the bill, the police will be basically given carte blanche to access journalists' information without their consent.

Although the rules stating whether police can have access to material or not will remain unaltered, without media groups present at hearings judges could be more easily persuaded to authorize police seizures of journalistic material, The Guardian reported.

[Perry Vale]

Read Snowden’s comments on 9/11 that NBC didn’t broadcast

Only around a quarter of the recent NBC News interview with former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden made it to broadcast, but unaired excerpts now online show that the network neglected to air critical statements about the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

When the four-hour sit-down between journalist Brian Williams and Snowden made it to air on Wednesday night, NBC condensed roughly four hours of conversation into a 60-minute time slot. During an analysis of the full interview afterwards, however, the network showed portions of the interview that didn’t make it into the primetime broadcast, including remarks from the former National Security Agency contractor in which he questioned the American intelligence community’s inability to stop the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

In response to a question from Williams concerning a “non-traditional enemy,” Al-Qaeda, and how to prevent further attacks from that organization and others, Snowden suggested that United States had the proper intelligence ahead of 9/11 but failed to act.

“You know, and this is a key question that the 9/11 Commission considered. And what they found, in the post-mortem, when they looked at all of the classified intelligence from all of the different intelligence agencies, they found that we had all of the information we needed as an intelligence community, as a classified sector, as the national defense of the United States to detect this plot,” Snowden said. “We actually had records of the phone calls from the United States and out. The CIA knew who these guys were. The problem was not that we weren’t collecting information, it wasn’t that we didn’t have enough dots, it wasn’t that we didn’t have a haystack, it was that we did not understand the haystack that we have.”

“The problem with mass surveillance is that we’re piling more hay on a haystack we already don’t understand, and this is the haystack of the human lives of every American citizen in our country,” Snowden continued. “If these programs aren’t keeping us safe, and they’re making us miss connections — vital connections — on information we already have, if we’re taking resources away from traditional methods of investigation, from law enforcement operations that we know work, if we’re missing things like the Boston Marathon bombings where all of these mass surveillance systems, every domestic dragnet in the world didn’t reveal guys that the Russian intelligence service told us about by name, is that really the best way to protect our country? Or are we — are we trying to throw money at a magic solution that’s actually not just costing us our safety, but our rights and our way of life?