Police Punch Helpless Drunk Vandal

[Si Hunt]

This is an interesting report:

Police are facing calls for an independent inquiry after CCTV footage showed a police officer repeatedly punching a woman during an arrest.

Toni Comer, 20, was being arrested last July for damaging a car in Sheffield - an offence she has since admitted.

Her lawyer called for an Independent Police Complaints Commission inquiry.

Police said they would investigate a complaint by Ms Comer but they were "happy" with the officer's conduct. He said he had been trying to subdue her.

The footage, obtained by the Guardian newspaper and shown on BBC Two's Newsnight, shows Ms Comer and a police officer falling down a flight of stairs outside Sheffield's Niche nightclub.

At the bottom, she is restrained by a group of officers, with the officer she fell with punching her five times - although it is not clear on what part of her body.

The footage shows Ms Comer, who is from Sheffield, writhing around on the ground, which she says was due to an epileptic fit. Police say she was trying to resist arrest.



A helpless epileptic, yesterday


She is later dragged to a police van with her trousers round her knees.

On Wednesday, at Sheffield Magistrates' Court, Ms Comer admitted criminal damage to a car, which she said happened after she was ejected from the nightclub, where she had been drinking brandy and had become aggressive.

She was given a conditional discharge and ordered to pay 250 to the vehicle's owner.

Ms Comer says she is now preparing a civil case against the police in relation to her arrest, during which she said she suffered cuts and bruises.

"I couldn't believe it to be honest, I couldn't believe they could do something like that at all," she said.

Her father Leroy Walcott said: "If anybody in any other situation, another male had been hitting a woman or a female, there's no way that would be acceptable."

He added that "it's the message that's actually being sent out".

"I've got a 14-year-old son, he's actually seen this footage. How do I explain to him that this is justified, regarding the police?"



Who's punching who?


In a statement broadcast by Newsnight, the police officer who punched her, named as Pc Mulhall, said Ms Comer had become violent.

"As her hands became free she tried to grab handfuls of my genitals and knee and kick me in the same place.

"At this point, I struck her as hard as I was physically able with my right fist in an attempt to subdue her. There was no apparent effect so I did this twice more."

He said she continued to resist handcuffs.

"I now struck her as hard as I was physically able in an attempt to deaden her arm...in the end I had to use brute force," he said.

Newsnight showed the footage to former Flying Squad commander John O'Connor.

He said: "The fact that these blows were in pursuance of trying to subdue her to get handcuffs on seems to me to be quite reasonable."

But local race relations manager Ruggie Johnson, who first obtained the CCTV tape, said: "It is absolutely shocking indeed to think that images like these could be coming out of South Yorkshire.

"This is not the deep south, this is South Yorkshire."

Chief Superintendent Ali Dizaei, of the National Black Police Association, also called for an investigation by the IPCC, saying it was a concern that race may have been an issue.

Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, also demanded an urgent investigation into the officer's actions.

"These images turn the stomach," she said.

South Yorkshire Police said: "The force is outraged at the nature of the report itself, and the possible suggestion that this may be linked to any kind of racist incident.

Has anyone seen the footage? I find this a very interesting report, due to the way the blame is swiftly apportioned to the police, and the rapid invention of gender and race issues that are quickly brought into play.

Obviously the police can't go around punching people, but let's look at the facts. This woman was drunk on brandy, aggressive, had been kicked out a nightclub and vandalised a car. Now SHE'S suing the police. It just doesn't seem right somehow. There's no mention of physical damage (only "cuts and bruises"), so you have to say, if you don't want to be roughed up, don't vandalise cars when pissed then resist arrest.

"Epileptic fit"? REALLY?

Her dear old Dad says "If anybody in any other situation, another male had been hitting a woman or a female, there's no way that would be acceptable.". True, but it's not acceptable for anyone to use force against another individual. But the police have to do something to restrain drunk vandals resisting arrest, surely.

"I've got a 14-year-old son, he's actually seen this footage. How do I explain to him that this is justified, regarding the police?"

Well maybe if his sister didn't drunkenly trash cars he wouldn't need to see it?

And why has the local race relations manager got involved?

It seems to me that simply BECAUSE she's a black woman, it has to be a race/gender issue.

What do YOU think?

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

I am completely disgusted. Not by the conduct of the police officer, but by the tone of that entire report. The CCTV footage does not show clearly where he is punching her or what she is doing, yet the whole thing is already coming down on her side. Captioning the photo of the woman 'A helpless epileptic' is absurd and emotive. Bringing in the racial angle is even worse.

Just because someone is a young, black woman does not automatically mean that that person can't be a criminal, can't resist arrest (she admits she caused criminal damage to a car, and she was obviously resisting arrest on the stairs), and can't be subdued by force if necessary. It is also quite obvious that she was drunk at the time. Since her critical faculties were impaired, I would treat her testimony with extreme caution.

But no, once again the criminal gets the floor and sues the police for doing their job. One day people might just recognise that being a police officer does on occasion require violent restraint. People complain about the police being ineffective, then complain equally vociferously when they do their job. What kind of delusional mind thinks the police force can work effectiveley by just using harsh words and bits of paper?

[SiHart]

Well said Jason!

Si xx

[Si Hunt]

Captioning the photo of the woman 'A helpless epileptic' is absurd and emotive.

Whoops. The captions were actually mine, I was being sarcastic. Everything else in the report is as per BBC News.

Sorry to be misleading.

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

What Jason said. I've seen the footage & it's no different to other footage I've seen on these Police Stop Camera programmes. It's a normal practise for police to 'dead' an arm to stop violent people assaulting the officers that are trying to handcuff them. All in all I believe this to be an incident that has been blown out of all proportion and bringing the race/sex angle is just there to inflame the situation in my opinion.

[Jason Thompson]

Ah, OK Si. Well the rest of the report is just as bad.

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone else think there are situations where it is acceptable for a man to strike a woman? I would never abuse a woman, or hit her because she pissed me off, or be violent towards her in general, but if she was attacking me then you'd better believe I'd hit her back! And yet the moment I do that, I become the violent monster because I am 'clearly' the stronger sex abusing the weaker sex!

[Si Hunt]

Yes this whole report is a shocking example of 'anti-descrimination' using someones race and gender to excuse what they are doing.

Also, someone in the office here pointed out - if she's an epileptic, what's she doing in a nightclub (which presumably has strobe lighting) getting pissed on brandy? There's just no responsibility for her actions on display at all.

The latest is that the officer has been removed from public duties.

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

The latest is that the officer has been removed from public duties.

Si.

Which is probably standard practice when their conduct is under review, so should not be given too much significance.

And the point about an epileptic going to a night club and getting pissed is an excellent one.

[Si Hunt]

should not be given too much significance.

It's currently the main headline on BBC News UK page.

Si.

[Dirk Gently]

But if you read the story it never mentions the removal from duties other than in the opening paragraph & no details. It's just there to get people to read the story we already know about.

[Wayne]

Jason's pretty much said it for me.

But local race relations manager Ruggie Johnson, who first obtained the CCTV tape, said: "It is absolutely shocking indeed to think that images like these could be coming out of South Yorkshire.

"This is not the deep south, this is South Yorkshire."

As soon as i got to that bit, i rolled my eyes. I just knew it was coming. *sigh What the feck has that got to do with anything! It really winds me up these days when the play the 'race' card. There's no evidence that i can see for racism at all. If he'd called her a 'black bastard' or something, then that's racism. Having to use force to subdue a criminal & at the same defend yourself from someone who's trying attack your genitals, who just happens to be black, isn't. What if the situation was reversed & it was a black officer & a white woman? There'd be no mention of racism then. It's clearly irrelevant!

Ah, OK Si. Well the rest of the report is just as bad.

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone else think there are situations where it is acceptable for a man to strike a woman? I would never abuse a woman, or hit her because she pissed me off, or be violent towards her in general, but if she was attacking me then you'd better believe I'd hit her back! And yet the moment I do that, I become the violent monster because I am 'clearly' the stronger sex abusing the weaker sex!

This is something i've often pondered upon, having seen the way a lot of drunk young women with attitude behave when they're out on the town these days. In theory, as someone who tries to treat women by the code of sexual equality, I'd treat them exactly the the same as i would any man who was attacking me, & hit them back. But theory & practise are often two entirely different things, & i naturally (as i'm sure you do) balk at the idea of hitting a woman.
I've never (touch wood) been in a situation yet where i've had to defend myself from an agressive female, but i'd like to think that i'd be able to do it with hitting them, if possible. There are ways of defending & quickly defusing a situation if you've got a clear enough head to react quickly enough, but a lot depends on the strength of your opponent. (& perhaps more to the point: how many of them there are) If she was a big powerful woman, a punch might be neccesary. But hopefully, such an awful situation will never occur in the first place.

[Si Hunt]

If it was Jade Goody, we'd ALL hit a woman!

Si.

[Wayne]

@Si

If it was her i'd probably run away in fear.

[Dirk Gently]

Well I don't know about running away but I'd definitely get some ear defenders.

[Captain Tancredi]

Ah, OK Si. Well the rest of the report is just as bad.

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone else think there are situations where it is acceptable for a man to strike a woman? I would never abuse a woman, or hit her because she pissed me off, or be violent towards her in general, but if she was attacking me then you'd better believe I'd hit her back! And yet the moment I do that, I become the violent monster because I am 'clearly' the stronger sex abusing the weaker sex!

This topic came up in a general office chat in my last job, and the strange thing was that while the men were unanimous that they'd never hit a woman, most of the women could accept that there were certain situations where an argument might get out of hand, particularly where drink was involved- perhaps it's just a more realistic attitude. I suppose you never know yourself until you're in that situation, and if you just happen to be in the wrong relationship with the wrong person who pushes the wrong buttons... but if I found myself with a girlfriend who turned out to have serious personality disorders and came at me with a knife, I'm not going to let myself be stabbed.

I suppose one argument in the woman's favour is that by the nature of the job, police officers sign up to wear the uniform and put themselves in the way of violence and danger. They shouldn't expect to go through a career and never have to deal with somebody who's violent, drunk and aggressive. They also receive training in how to protect themselves from assault so as to minimise injury to themselves, which ordinary civilians don't. Suspending the copper concerned is standard practice, as is the police's tendency to exonerate the same individual once the story drops out of the public eye.

[Alex]

I just noticed this...

"As her hands became free she tried to grab handfuls of my genitals and knee and kick me in the same place

So she was grabbing handfuls of his genitals - just how much does he have down there?!?!

I've just seen her on the Channel Four news and she came across well, calm, quiet, and honest, but then her story is all a bit too convenient - especially where it comes to the fact that she can't remember vandalising the car / attacking the policeman. And if that is the case, how can she say what she's saying based on quite poor cctv?