The Day of The Doctor - Rate and Discuss

[MacNimon]

Does he in fact have 'days'? I was under the impression he just came into being for 'the last day' of the Time War?

He must have had. We earlier saw McGann regenerating into a young Hurt, and yesterday an old Hurt regenerating into Eccleston. He must have had a very hard regeneration to age so quickly in a short time to not have had 'earlier days'!

[Dirk Gently]

Does he in fact have 'days'? I was under the impression he just came into being for 'the last day' of the Time War?

The mini episode gave him a youthful face, so I'd guess yes, he has some time as the War Doctor.

I need to watch it again but as has been pointed out by Simon & Kenny, there are some issues with it. Immediately after the episode I was on cloud 9 but with hind sight there are questions & I'm not sure there are answers.

Queen Elizabeth I was very switched on for someone of 450 years ago & could impersonate a Zygon without prior knowledge of what the heck she should be doing. Ordering the Zygon in to the picture, how did she know? If the Doctor's took that cube with them to use later how did the other half dozen Zygons get in to their pictures...although there were only 3 in the future but more in the Tower, what happened to those that were left? What happened to those in the future arguing over whether or not to blow up London?

Despite these issues I loved it, I just can't give it as high a score as I would love to.

8/10. Must try harder to tie up lose ends Mr Moffat.

[Perry Vale]

We earlier saw McGann regenerating into a young Hurt...

Not in a tv episode, we didn't.

Why does he choose to become a warrior, to end the time war, then spend many, many years NOT ending it?

[Dirk Gently]

That's the point though, we don't know how many years he did spend trying to end it & what brought him to the conclusion to use the "what ever it was device with the Billie Piper interface". He said it was the only way, presumably he tried other avenues first.

[MacNimon]

I've got to admit that I'm leaning towards 8/10 rather than the 9/10 I voted for, simply because of these few flaws. I don't know whether its down to lazy scripting or what, but there are simply too many unanswered questions. However these are only minor quibbles in an episode where, surprisingly given the quality of the last couple of years, Moffat managed for the most part to give us a story which ultimately made sense and tied up a number of loose ends, both of his own making and those which he inherited. It certainly wasn't the mess I was dreading.

[Mike Saville]

We often take on roles and causes, and then as time progresses realise it's not a challenge we can actually achieve. And I bet even those of you here that haven't, can point to at least one of their bosses at work who has.

So the War Doctor. He took on the role of Warrior 40 (or however many years earlier) with the desire to end the war. As time went on and he became less and less successful and it became evident that the bazookas weren't going to end it, he saw only one solution. The beyond anger resignation was evident on his face, and played superbly by Hurt- though I'd have expected nothing less.

Tom as the current curator worked better than expected, and was a nice touch- despite Tom not being one of my favourite Doctors his vocal tones were even more enchanting on the big screen, and I don't think any of the others would have sounded as fabulous.

I loved Hurt. And I loved that he echoed many of our frustrations of the incessant waving of bloody sonic screwdrivers early on, so I loved it even more when, after 400 years, Clara opened the door.

And "Gallifrey Falls No More", though telegraphed a little labouredly, was still a rather nice ending.

Not flawless, no. But together with Name and Night, it's a darned near to it as I could have hoped and dared to expect.

[The456]

I really liked this, although Moffat had to do his timey wimey stuff it kind of made sense. I thought Billie Piper was really good and loved the reference to Bad Wolf. One small anomaly I noticed was at the start Clara left school in South London at 5.15pm in blazing sunshine and arrived at the Tardis with what looked like snow on the ground. So unless she drove all the way to Scotland ?

[Anthony Williams]

For the record, I never give anything 10/10. 10/10 is as close to perfect as possible. It's reserved for an Androzani, Fenric, or Robots of Death.

But this was wonderful. From the Hartnell opening sequence, through to the twelve Doctors on-screen, this was, for once, everything that the production promised - a love letter to the fans. There were so, so many moments where in a crowd of my friends, I happily squealed like a fangirl (particularly Capaldi rocking up). And I won't lie... there were moments where I had a tear in my eye.

My gut instinct on first viewing is that this is up there with the best of them. 10/10 for me. Let's hope that re-watching it doesn't jade that...

[Jason Thompson]

Not in a tv episode, we didn't.

Why does he choose to become a warrior, to end the time war, then spend many, many years NOT ending it?

You assume he knew exactly how to end it when he made the choice to become the warrior. I doubt he went from trying to avoid the war entirely to deciding that both sides needed wiping out just like that.

[Jason Thompson]

Queen Elizabeth I was very switched on for someone of 450 years ago

Why should being from 450 years ago mean she's not capable of 'being switched on'? People in ye olden days were not stupid, just less informed about the world and universe around them. There's no reason someone from then can't be brought up to speed on alien invasions and stuff like that just as much as 'modern' humans frequently are in the show.

& could impersonate a Zygon without prior knowledge of what the heck she should be doing. Ordering the Zygon in to the picture, how did she know?

What did she do with the Zygon in the forest? We know she killed it, but could she not have extracted some information from it first?

[Dirk Gently]

There's no reason someone from then can't be brought up to speed on alien invasions and stuff like that just as much as 'modern' humans frequently are in the show.

By whom exactly? It appeared she did it all by herself...seeing as she was "up to speed" whilst away from the Doctor's presence.

What did she do with the Zygon in the forest? We know she killed it, but could she not have extracted some information from it first?

Yes, she overpowered a Zygon whilst it was in the shape of herself & interrogated it without it changing back in to its natural shape where it would then be able to overpower her? How stupid of me for not spotting it.

[Si Hunt]

Well the friends all liked it. Just out of interest since if we include Night of the Doctor and Tom Baker's cameo and all the archive footage used at the end does that mean Si Hunt's a happy bunny?

It was a very difficult one to form an opinion about, what with all that expectation, and the cinema visit, and so on. I'll tell you what I thought on first viewing - I was dissapointed. Until about 45 minutes in. We'd had nothing 'special', or at least nothing more special than a season finale. After a fine start with the classic titles and Coal Hill, we'd slipped into a fairly normal adventure and it was becoming clear that no old Doctors would turn up, or anything in fact. I started becoming aware that a whole cinema of very quiet fans had had nothing to whoop about and worried Moffat had curated the biggest disappointment in history. Then he gifted us a clutch of fruitful gestures in the last ten minutes and I left feeling high, giddy on an impossibly impressive last shot, a few clips and a Tom Baker cameo. But I knew deep down that I'd been "had", seduced by a few minutes of clips and trick shots when I still clearly remembered being underwealmed by the rest. I didn't even understand the main plot.

Today I feel a lot different. To be fair, even at the time the chemistry between the Doctors was a joy. It was a lot lighter and funnier episode than I was expecting, which itself is odd given the "he who cannot be mentioned" shadow cultivated around the War Doctor; by the second scene he had turned into a kindly old uncle. But if we met him BEFORE he pushed the button, maybe that explains this. It was pushing it that turned him into something shameful.

Now, as ever knowing what we did and didn't get (and being slightly more sobre) I can appreciate that what we got was one of Moffat's best stories. Let's be fair, it can't be easy having his mission but he chose to weave a story around The Decision. He made a funny, clever tale where for once all the time-travelling trickery made sense. Having the Hurt Doctor mock all the things we at home are irritated by about Moffat's own writing (timey wimey, the silly catchphrase, the over the top Doctors) was very clever and funny for those watching (at home and in the cinema). Everyone was good in this - it was easy to warm to Hurt's Doctor and I feel myself welcoming him to the line-up. I didn't feel at all offended to see him in the line-up at the end next to Hartnell, Pertwee, Davison and friends.

I STILL, I'm afraid, think it was a lost opportunity to truly celebrate 50 years of Doctor Who. I'm not entirely seduced by the bits at the end, and the bulk of this still wilfully excluded lots pre-2005 where it could so easily have been even better by being a joyful homage. Hurt, great though he was, was still an obvious replacement for a missing Eccleston and while nothing can be done about the actors seemingly spiteful refusal to record even a few seconds at the end of the regeneration scene (the script was so shaped to fit three Doctors that I even suspect he pulled out later than Moffat is revealing), an earlier Doctor could easily have been substituted. McGann would have been perfect (especially as he was actually the Doctor that fought the Time War until they ret-conned in Hurt!) and nice though "Night of the Doctor" was, and believe me I will always treasure it, it showed us that McGann is as great as we always knew he was and suggested sounds of people in Cardiff kicking themselves for believing otherwise.

There were plenty of other opportunities for the past to be celebrated - why wasn't the Time Lord President played by Lalla Ward? Why wasn't John Levene playing Kate Lethbridge-Stewarts Right Hand Man? Why wasn't K9 briefly glimpsed in the UNIT under gallery? Why wasn't Headmaster William Russell the one telling Clara that her Doctor had called? In all these cases it seems like it would have been easier to have NOT added these special touches, especially with regards contriving Clara a job at Coal Hill, setting some scenes there, and then not making the call to Russell.

On the other hand, Tom at the end did suggest that Moffat was right not to have included ALL the Doctors in full roles. It was a beautiful, touching cameo but this man is so old, now using a stick, and, I was wrong, this was the most I think we could have expected. Incidentally, he said "You will revisit old faces" so we think in a future incarnation the Doctor re-adopts the features of his Fourth incarnation.

I think Billie's role in this was just odd, frankly. What kind of ancient weapon creates a personality for itself that spends days persuading you not to use it? Why was she "bad wolf"? We sort of missed Rose and even if you didn't, why use Billie if you aren't't having Rose? It could have been anyone (she seemed to be channelling Suranne Jones as Idris, another character that it would have made more sense to have in this role). Narratively, if you needed someone to debate the plot to the Doctor it would have made more sense if it was Rassillon (popping up to caution against using his most devastating creation) and, indeed, this made it another lost opportunity to bring back someone from the past (a wizened vision of the Doctors seventh persona perhaps).

But anyway. It's done now. It was a great story, well told, and central thrust of it, that nothing is ever lost, that you can go back and make things better, that this great disaster that's happened is all made better by the Doctor, is very Doctor Who. Tennant, Smith and Hurt did us proud (like in '83, you make the best out of what you have) and it felt like something special, even if they resisted a full-on 50 year celebration.

I gave it 9 out of 10.

Si.

[Jason Thompson]

By whom exactly? It appeared she did it all by herself...seeing as she was "up to speed" whilst away from the Doctor's presence.

By which time he'd already introduced her to the concept of shape-changing aliens. He's shown her inside the TARDIS. He's pulled out a portable gadget that goes 'ding'. What more does she need to know to decide she wants to find out what this creature that has been following her around and is now impersonating her is doing? As I said, being from 450 years ago doesn't automatically render her incapable of dealing with this information and working with it.

Yes, she overpowered a Zygon whilst it was in the shape of herself & interrogated it without it changing back in to its natural shape where it would then be able to overpower her? How stupid of me for not spotting it.

Drop the sarcasm please, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. She overpowered a Zygon disguised as herself. If she didn't kill it immediately she certainly wounded it. She used a relatively small knife. A lot less chance of it overpowering her in its natural form if it's wounded, isn't there?

[Dirk Gently]

By which time he'd already introduced her to the concept of shape-changing aliens.

No he hadn't. He'd said the words "shape changing alien" but she would have no context to use that language. A modern person would have because we use such language in Science Fiction.

He's shown her inside the TARDIS. He's pulled out a portable gadget that goes 'ding'. What more does she need to know to decide she wants to find out what this creature that has been following her around and is now impersonating her is doing? As I said, being from 450 years ago doesn't automatically render her incapable of dealing with this information and working with it.

No being from that age doesn't "automatically render her incapable" but she is of the age that still believes in magic, who's idea of medicine is to bleed someone & has no real concept of science.

A lot less chance of it overpowering her in its natural form if it's wounded, isn't there?

Is there? That's a large assumption if you don't mind me saying so. I don't know how a wounded Zygon would act without seeing it but I very much doubt a superior being* would tell a primitive species* its entire plan & how to fool its own kind even if it was wounded.


*By its own standards.

[dalekkiller]

[

I STILL, I'm afraid, think it was a lost opportunity to truly celebrate 50 years of Doctor Who. I'm not entirely seduced by the bits at the end, and the bulk of this still wilfully excluded lots pre-2005 where it could so easily have been even better by being a joyful homage. Hurt, great though he was, was still an obvious replacement for a missing Eccleston and while nothing can be done about the actors seemingly spiteful refusal to record even a few seconds at the end of the regeneration scene (the script was so shaped to fit three Doctors that I even suspect he pulled out later than Moffat is revealing), an earlier Doctor could easily have been substituted. McGann would have been perfect (especially as he was actually the Doctor that fought the Time War until they ret-conned in Hurt!) and nice though "Night of the Doctor" was, and believe me I will always treasure it, it showed us that McGann is as great as we always knew he was and suggested sounds of people in Cardiff kicking themselves for believing otherwise.

There were plenty of other opportunities for the past to be celebrated - why wasn't the Time Lord President played by Lalla Ward? Why wasn't John Levene playing Kate Lethbridge-Stewarts Right Hand Man? Why wasn't K9 briefly glimpsed in the UNIT under gallery? Why wasn't Headmaster William Russell the one telling Clara that her Doctor had called? In all these cases it seems like it would have been easier to have NOT added these special touches, especially with regards contriving Clara a job at Coal Hill, setting some scenes there, and then not making the call to Russell.

On the other hand, Tom at the end did suggest that Moffat was right not to have included ALL the Doctors in full roles. It was a beautiful, touching cameo but this man is so old, now using a stick, and, I was wrong, this was the most I think we could have expected. Incidentally, he said "You will revisit old faces" so we think in a future incarnation the Doctor re-adopts the features of his Fourth incarnation.

I think Billie's role in this was just odd, frankly. What kind of ancient weapon creates a personality for itself that spends days persuading you not to use it? Why was she "bad wolf"? We sort of missed Rose and even if you didn't, why use Billie if you aren't't having Rose? It could have been anyone (she seemed to be channelling Suranne Jones as Idris, another character that it would have made more sense to have in this role). Narratively, if you needed someone to debate the plot to the Doctor it would have made more sense if it was Rassillon (popping up to caution against using his most devastating creation) and, indeed, this made it another lost opportunity to bring back someone from the past (a wizened vision of the Doctors seventh persona perhaps).

But anyway. It's done now. It was a great story, well told, and central thrust of it, that nothing is ever lost, that you can go back and make things better, that this great disaster that's happened is all made better by the Doctor, is very Doctor Who. Tennant, Smith and Hurt did us proud (like in '83, you make the best out of what you have) and it felt like something special, even if they resisted a full-on 50 year celebration.

I gave it 9 out of 10.

Si.

[/QUOTE]
Chesterton was stated as being chairman of the board of governors not the Headmaster. But yeah as good as Hurt was maybe using McGann would have been better. Other than that there were a number of references to the old series. So all in all a good job

[SiHart]

It's an extraordinary episode. For once, Steven Moffat has kept his promise- this really does change things for the Doctor. Rewriting his own history, ridding him of the Time War guilt, I really liked that. The Time War was expedient for the reintroduction of the show, but I don't think a guilt ridden Doctor is necessarily something we want to be saddled with forever. I think Steven was very clever here- making the Doctor be the Doctor.

What I liked watching it back this evening, was how the B Plot mirrors the A Plot. You see the Doctor being the Doctor he's become, so that the Doctor he was can become the man he should. The way he deals with the Zygon problem is rather good- left negotiating a peace between them and humans shows that there is always a better way, and so that's how he deals with the Time War. Thanks to Clara, he's inspired to be the Doctor and find another way. Truly, this is a story about the Doctor, how he's redeemed, how he's recreated and how the retconned Hurt Doctor really does become the Doctor. (this makes sense in my head!)

Along the way there are great moments. Lots of lovely great Doctor banter (and not all bickering and envy either). I love Hurt being astonished by what he becomes, and I adored him telling the Doctors off for their childish catchphrases, and for waving roudn their sonic screwdrivers like they're weapons. It's like a comment from fandom! Lovely!

And then, then, we see Capaldi!

And then, then, then we get the lovely Tom cameo at the end. Just glorious. I was just amazed to see both my favourites on screen together. A future Doctor, revisiting a few favourite old bodies? How lovely!

It's a very different anniversary story to all those ones we've been used to down the years, but that's fine. This is about what makes the Doctor the character we love. It's a good way to celebrate.

[Nyder]

I've just finished re-watching it too

9.5/10 from me

This was a nearly impossible story to pitch, having to satisfy us lovely fans and not alienate the majority of the viewing population. And bless you Moff, you pulled it off! On first watching, I found the Lizzie I scenes a bit dragging, but on second viewing I can see how delicately interwoven they were. The Zygons were brilliantly realised, and seeing all the Doctors was a real punch your fist in the air moment. Not that I did that in the cinema of course :-) And then there was Tom. I think we all got a bit emotional then :-)

[Mike Saville]

I've just finished re-watching it too

9.5/10 from me

This was a nearly impossible story to pitch, having to satisfy us lovely fans and not alienate the majority of the viewing population. And bless you Moff, you pulled it off! On first watching, I found the Lizzie I scenes a bit dragging, but on second viewing I can see how delicately interwoven they were. The Zygons were brilliantly realised, and seeing all the Doctors was a real punch your fist in the air moment. Not that I did that in the cinema of course :-) And then there was Tom. I think we all got a bit emotional then :-)

That was Tom? Cos I said to rascal snd diddydoc that John Culshaw had let himself go. My bad. ;-)

[Dirk Gently]

[Si Hunt]

We think John Culshaw voiced Hartnell at one point.

Si.

[Andrew Curnow]

Nah, even if I hadn't recognised the face, I'd have known - the voice was too good for it to be Jon Culshaw.

[SiHart]

It was the guy who did the Planet of Giants recon voice according to the credits.

Last night I didn't spot that all the Doctors got a credit. How lovely!

[WhiteCrowNZ]

When Clara said that some "old guy, the curator" was wanting to speak to him, I thought it might actually turn out to be Peter Capaldi, with some weird Logopolis style "flash forward" of the future Doctor. Then it turned out to be Tom!

Do you know what was an absolute joy about the Tom Baker - he played that part verbatim as he played his Doctor. And it was so beautiful to see him, even at this great age, returning to the part one more time.

Though I loved Ecclestone, I was really pleased he wasn't in it - because if he'd signed up, we'd have never got to see John Hurt. Usually it takes an actor a couple of stories to get their Doctor "sorted" (or to be honest, more the writers). Like McGann, he only got one story, but just how amazing was he? I've been spending months with my butterflies in my stomach about John Hurt being the Doctor. He's just such an amazing actor (can you imagine Hurts Doctor against Jaccobis Master for instance?), and his Doctor really did do an effective bridge between the old and new series.

There was a point though where I wanted them not to save Gallifrey. The loss of the Timelords has been so inherent to the recent series, I didn't want a Star Trek Into Darkness retcon, destroying some of my favourite new series themes.

But I loved the enormity of pressing the big red button, and how the different Doctors coped. It touched on Toms two strands dilemna in Genesis of the Daleks (which is probably the finest scene of all time imo), but also why Ecclestone couldn't activate the delta wave in Parting Of The Ways.

My only dilemna is when do I watch again - because it's a rollercoaster which'll lose impact on repeat viewing, and right now, I just want to remember the emotional ride.

[Perry Vale]

Of course Tom's cameo, and Doctors 5, 6, and 7 appearing covered by dust sheets, only goes to perpetuate the "any c*nt with an equity card" feeling...

[duncan]

Was I disappointed by The Day of the doctor? No, well, just a bit. Was I expecting something a bit more special? Yes, probably.

I found the anniversary story a bit run of the mill with a couple of extra Doctors and a few small surprises chucked in for good measure. My wife and I watched at home in 3D and enjoyed having Dalek eye stalks and plungers protruding into the living room and the paintings had such depth to them.

I have to admit that we were far more enamoured with The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot as it was hilarious from start to finish.