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  1. #76

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    Goodbye United Kingdom

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Vale View Post
    Then don't let that happen. Make something new. Start new political parties/partnerships. Engage with your fellow man. Engage with the youth (being given their first vote). Our forefathers and ancestors used to theorise and create many different forms of political ideology (socialism, communism, marxism - not saying any of them are 'right', just as examples). After more than a century of the LibLabCon, our brains have been shrunk, and we as a people cannot any longer 'think outside the box'. We have been narrowed in thought, and therefore in deed. We cannot even imagine, let alone create something new, something better. We cannot think outside of the status quo.
    One could make this appeal to a great many countries in essence, including those in the UK and some out of it. I don't mean to imply that you don't have a point in the general sense about the situation, and on a widespread basis, but there's nothing about the concept of an independent Scotland that makes me think it's likely to do any better concerning those issues than it already is.

    If you vote YES you have the opportunity to learn from previous mistakes, and put them right. A No vote just endorses the same mistakes to be made over and over again, for ever more. It is accepting government of the people, rather than for the people.
    Scotland would have exactly the same political parties, the same political order and system of government, and the same electorate that it has now. It doesn't seem to me that it would provide any possibilities in those areas that aren't already in existence now.

    There are reasons why I'm a bit dubious about the argument that an independent Scotland could herald a social democratic revival, such as its heavy reliance on a large finance industry and its falling oil revenues, and that it is already trying to become a tax haven - lower taxes for the wealthy - and has a pensioner population which is larger and increasing more rapidly than that of the UK. Given all of that, I suspect it could end up having to apply harsher austerity measures than those that currently exist. I don't think that an independent Scotland is necessarily unviable, but am sadly very dubious about its prospects of achieving the kind of social democratic model some are hoping for in the current circumstances. It'd be nice if they could, but there are significant problems in the way of it, not easily solved, and independence could make some of those problems even more difficult to overcome. Although that said, if they do become independent, I hope that they do manage to solve them. My sympathies to any Scottish posters on here too who are anticipating the result and concerned about it, one way or the other, whichever side they support.
    Last edited by Logo Polish; 18th Sep 2014 at 7:15 PM.

  3. #78
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    Bye Bye Scotland
    Assume you're going to Win
    Always have an Edge

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logo Polish View Post
    ...but there's nothing about the concept of an independent Scotland that makes me think it's likely to do any better concerning those issues than it already is.
    I'm not saying it's likely. I'm firmly of the belief though that people should vote for what they wish for to happen, not what they expect to happen. Vote NO and it certainly won't do any better. Better some hope, than none, in my book. I've followed it closely, and have yet to see a convincing argument why an independent Scotland can't be a success, but as an english man, feel I am trespassing on this debate so will say no more. And it's too late anyway!

    Not sure if true, but Twitter was saying that some polling stations closed early as they had a 100% turnout?!
    “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” - Gutle Schnaper Rothschild

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Goodbye United Kingdom
    Is it all done and dusted then?

  6. #81
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    Pity. I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank. EXTERMINATE!

  7. #82
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    Well it's done. Now we wait.

    I've just got my handcuffs and my truncheon and that's enough.

  8. #83
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    All very exciting, historical and possibly hysterical!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #84
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    An old friend of mine who has been involved in many debates on Facebook recently on the No side posted this today...."I've had many lively discussions both on and off Facebook about this referendum. All bar two ended with both parties agreeing to disagree and respecting each other's opinions. No need for any bitterness or daft falling out.
    No matter what the result is, (and tbh I think it'll be a landslide Yes) the sun will still come up on Friday morning, yer pals will still be yer pals and we'll all have to get on - United some might call it- So whilst I'm a No, if it's yes then I'll accept it and continue being a proud Scot."

    Well said...that's the attitude that's going to be needed from many people, regardless of which side wins. (And he hasn't really given up hope of a No vote, but he's trying to be diplomatic!) Many people will be disappointed, but there's going to be no point complaining about it after the decision has been made. Everyone has to look to the future and work together regardless of whether we think it's the right decision or not...I hope to see more people thinking like this over the coming days.

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    Clackmannanshire declared first: No.
    Yes - 16,350 46%
    No - 19,036 54%
    Turnout 89%

    Orkney declares second : No.
    Yes - 4,883 - 33%
    No - 10,004 - 67%
    Turnout 84%

    No have it so far, excellent turnout figures. With Glasgow coming in last with a turnout of 75%. Considering that they have turnouts below 40% for general elections that's actually good for Glasgow.

  11. #86
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    Shetland Islands : No.

    Yes - 5,669 - 36%
    No - 9,951 - 64%
    Turnout 84%

    Overall so far- Yes 41% - No 59%

    3/32 areas declared.

  12. #87
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    Eilean Siar - No.

    Yes - 9,195 - 47%
    No - 10,544 - 53%
    Turnout 86%

    This is a shock, Eilean Siar is a huge supporter of SNP & returned an SNP MP to Westminster. I seriously thought this would be a yes vote.

    Overall so far- Yes 42% - No 58%

    But these declarations are small in number, when you think that Glasgow has a population of nearly 500,000. So still really early days.

  13. #88
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    Inverclyde - No.

    Yes - 27,243 - 49.9%
    No - 27,329 - 50.1%
    Turnout 87%

    Holy crap that was SERIOUSLY close. Just 86 votes in it!

  14. #89
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    Renfrewshire - No.

    Yes - 55,466 - 47%
    No - 62,067 - 53%
    Turnout 87%



    Dundee - Yes.

    Yes - 53,620 - 57%
    No - 39,880 - 43%
    Turnout 79%


    Now that has made a huge differnce to the overall %'s. Yes - 49.1%, No - 50.9%. So close.

    But my gut feeling is it'll be a slight win for the No vote. May be a 53% to 47%.

  15. #90
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    Glasgow - Yes.

    Yes - 194,779 - 53%
    No - 169,347 - 47%
    Turnout 75%

    That's a good win for the yes camp, but not good enough. It looks to me like the U.K will remain intact.

  16. #91

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    I reckoned from the atmosphere in Glasgow it was tight and where there are more deprived areas there was bound to be more YES votes. I'm so relieved that Scotland has decided not to rip the Union apart and I think the big positive for me is that it has shaken up UK politics. I think we need to keep up the momentum for a fairer distribution of wealth and opportunities across the UK. If Scotland gets treated poorly after this I guarantee I will be voting for independence next time....

  17. #92
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    Morning.

    Oh hello Scotland, I see you're still there; that's good :-)
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    David Cameron has lead the way in the vomit-inducing, patronising responses this morning. Do we need a separate English Parliament? What a nonsense!

    Declaring this as a huge success for the 'NO' party is a mistake, because around half of Scotland still wants independence. That's what the media and the politicians seem to be wilfully ignoring.
    Pity. I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank. EXTERMINATE!

  20. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Vale View Post
    I'm not saying it's likely. I'm firmly of the belief though that people should vote for what they wish for to happen, not what they expect to happen. Vote NO and it certainly won't do any better. Better some hope, than none, in my book.
    That wasn't quite the point I was making. I meant that any lack of radical politics isn't due to whether one's country is in or out of the UK, it's people's own inclinations and activities that decide that, and that on the whole is why I think the question of independence, at least from the angle of wanting to make significant changes to mainstream politics, is largely a distraction that has little relevance to it.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob McCow View Post
    Do we need a separate English Parliament? What a nonsense!
    Why not?


    With the extra powers promised to Scotland (and I doubt they'll deliver for May next year), why should Scottish MPs get a say in things that only affect the UK?
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  22. #97
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    My greatest wish now is , having spent every night for the last six or so weeks having to watch Salmond's smug smiley face cheerfully slagging off the No campaign and claiming it was a done deal, that he now be forced to spend the next 6 weeks travelling from Scottish town to town, and appear on the news every night to be asked how he feels about the result.
    Bazinga !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philip J Ludlam View Post
    With the extra powers promised to Scotland (and I doubt they'll deliver for May next year)
    Yeah, good luck with those, they already appear to be backtracking.

    David Cameron now owes his job to Gordon Brown, for the second time. We're all in this together.

    Talk of this issue now being buried for a generation, or lifetime, seem premature. It's interesting that among 16-17 year olds, the vote was 71% YES...
    “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” - Gutle Schnaper Rothschild

  24. #99
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    With the extra powers promised to Scotland (and I doubt they'll deliver for May next year), why should Scottish MPs get a say in things that only affect the UK?
    Because we're still a United Kingdom?
    Pity. I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank. EXTERMINATE!

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Vale View Post
    Talk of this issue now being buried for a generation, or lifetime, seem premature. It's interesting that among 16-17 year olds, the vote was 71% YES...
    That's because the majority (or rather, none) of 16-17 year olds have been working hard all their lives scrimping and saving every penny...none of them have been paying into endowments etc which rely on strong financial markets for over 20 years. They're in a different position at the moment to where they'll be in 30 years or so time.

    I'm not embarrassed to admit that finances were a major part of my voting No. I'm lucky enough, for the first time in my working life - or more specifically, since we started a family - to have money in the bank, and an endowment policy which matures in 2 years time. I'm expecting that the combination of these will allow me to pay off my mortgage at that time and give me financial security and no worries about having a roof over my head for the rest of my life. Free up cash to help my daughter get through University. A Yes vote could have paid havoc with the financial markets and possibly screwed up my plans in a big way...so, despite disgruntled Yes voters stating that Scots aren't as brave as they thought we were, I'm proud to be putting my family first before any thoughts of some idealistic dream. My family mean more to me than a bunch of politicians who only want your vote then turn their back on you afterwards...