RTD's Cucumber/ Banana

[SiHart]

Anyone else been watching the new RTD shows on Channel 4?

While I enjoyed Cucumber a lot (I've only seen part 1 so far) I did find a bit depressing. It didn't take much a positive view of middle aged gay life (though maybe there's not much drama in everyone being happy?) but I really like Banana, which was funny and cheeky and great fun.

What did you think?

[Nyder]

I had the same feelings Si. Banana was more joyous. I've seen the two Cucumber episodes, and yes it does seem to be concentrating on older gay men dissatisfied with their lot and lusting after the young ones, with the young boys being more than a tad arrogant. It's very watchable ... but dare I say it .... leaves a bitter taste in the mouth


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[Andrew Curnow]

I've not been watching Banana, but have followed Cucumber so far. So I can't really comment on whether one is more fun than the other - but I am enjoying Cucumber. I'm not quite sure yet exactly what it is really, is it RTD's unique take on the theme of middle-aged man has midlife crisis, or is it ultimately a love story? Whatever, I like the performance of the guy playing Henry (I sort of think I've seen him in something else, but I don't know what & his name doesn't ring a bell) and although I know what you mean about the young guys seeming very arrogant, I think that is just how youth is isn't it? And for all that cockiness, it was fun to see Henry undermining Freddie a little when he mocked his talk of 'money laundering'.

[Nyder]

If you saw "The Thick of It" then that's where you've seen him before


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[Andrew Curnow]

Where will I have seen him before if I haven't seen "The Thick of It"?

[Nyder]

Any of these?



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[Andrew Curnow]

Ah-ha, it must be Topsy Turvy I think - well done Dave, you've cracked another case

[SiHart]

Oh yes, he's very very good. I hadn't linked him with The Thick of It, which probably shows how good he is

[Rob McCow]

I wonder who Vincent played in Being Human?

Yes, I remember him in The Thick of It now! He seems a lot thinner in Cucumber, plus it's a very different performance. He's really, really good though isn't he?

[Andrew Curnow]

Kevin Banks?!

[Nyder]

Wouldn't kick him out of bed


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[Rob McCow]

We're up to date with this (bar one banana) after falling behind. It's great stuff, but there aren't half a lot of cringe-inducing moments!

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Really pleasing to see they cast a genuine trans person as Helen in the lastest Banana.

I agree with some of the views expressed about Cucumber but have to say RTD hasn't lost his knack for the hilarious dialogue.

[SiHart]

The end of last week's episode was quite superb. It still makes me laugh!

[Nyder]

Ha ha yes that was unexpected!

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

Yes even my fiancé, who hasn't been that impressed with Cucumber, laughed out loud.

We're both enjoying Banana though and we've found some of Tofu quite interesting.

[SiHart]

Banana has been excellent. The second one was particularly brilliant.

[Rob McCow]

How bad are things going to get for Henry?

What impresses me most about RTD's writing is how he makes connections. The link from the online videos, to the game 'Nervous', to the horrible violation of his sister's daughter was something that I couldn't see coming - but when it was spelled out, it was inevitable. Henry convinced himself that his actions were innocent, but it took a personal horror for him to realise what he was doing.

Then there's Lance's crush on the guy from the aquarium. Most of their scenes I find totally unwatchable, I'm absolutely cringing in horror and embarrassment. Then again, I'm kind of interested to see how far they're going to push that storyline.

As it turns out, quite far!

Best of all, I have no idea how any of this is going to turn out. I can't see Henry getting back with Lance now. So what next?

[Si Hunt]

This has been a horrible series generally so far. All the characters are nasty - nasty Lance dumps his boyfriend because he won't take him up the shitter and then (with zero dignity) pursues a dangerous straight oaf who treats him like shit - and HE's the good guy! (according to Russell's interview for Radio Times). Henry is smarmy and feckless and apparently wants to live in a squat with a vain, horrible teenager and be treated like shit just so he can dream of shagging him. All of these characters are repellent! The son of Hayley From Coronation Street is a straight teenager who likes showing off by kissing other guys which frankly just sounds like the script writer making his fantasies come true.

We're not sure what the point of this series is - who we should be gunning for, what the moral is. Is it "Lance and Henry will realise they should be together"? Is it, as scarily implied several times, "relationships are meaningless unless they are based around arse sex"? Or is it the writer trying to force arse sex on us because it's not mentioned enough in society? Or is the writer trying to break down every taboo he can? This whole series has been deeply uncomfortable and depressing.

It was almost, however, made up for by last night's episode, which I won't spoil here. Suffice to say it was more of a "Banana"-type self-contained episode, and rather moving. The series has pulled itself back, awful though it's been so far.

Si.

[Rob McCow]

I agree in some ways, but I'm absolutely addicted. It could be a warning message - the pursuit of meaningless sexual encounters in middle age might seem like a good idea, but they're only going to end in disaster.

Yes, the most recent episode.

Bloody hell. Poor Lance. What a delightful, loving, warm, humorous character. What a horrible death. Walk away Lance. Walk away!

Interestingly in my mind, I was seeing it from Lance's POV throughout, except for the scene with Henry. It was the only moment where I didn't feel I knew what was going on in Lance's head.

[Nyder]

Henry redeemed himself for me in this latest episode - although I've never really hated him, and I don't know why he's being portrayed as the villain of the piece. It was a disturbing episode episode to watch but I guess you were forewarned about it. The series does portray a very bleak path for gay men of a certain age. Thanks Russell. I shall console myself with the fact that 99.9%* of my gay friends are lovely, lovely people. I guess that wouldn't make it to a mainstream Channel 4 series though

*please refer to my 1997 diary for the 0.1%


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[SiHart]

If anything I think Lance was equally culpable. His violent, angry picking up of the guy for their threesome with the aim of humiliating Henry was really nasty and incredibly malicious, like his stopping Henry having access to his own money. He said he did for Henry's benefit, but I'm not so sure. Lance struck me as a bit hypocritical and judgemental really, however much the last episode redeemed him.

[Richard Brinck-Johnsen]

It has been great having RTD's voice back on TV and I'm not entirely suprised that Cucumber was such a bleak series. I don't have any issues with the way Russell chose to end it (after all as he once said in regards to Queer as Folk, real life doesn't have happy endings) but I guess I feel a mixture of satisfaction and relief that it reached an ending and there definitely won't be a follow up.
I'm sure there are plenty more new stories and characters in Russell's head.