Rate and Discuss: Heaven Sent

[egdcltd]

The Doctor died already in Father's Day. A different 9th Doctor appears at the end, in a different setting and timeline to where he arrived. I still find that one of the most exciting 'shocks' the new series has served up.

I've always interpreted that as the restoration of the timeline meant the Doctor had never actually died in the first place.

[Nyder]

Just re-watched it - the incidental music is wonderful!


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[Dirk Gently]

Surely the very first time there would have been no message or skull?

Exactly! There was no message & therefore no reason for the Doctor to say the word Bird & open the hidden door. How would he know the password?

[Andrew Curnow]

Now I know my memory's going, but was there a password? I though bird was just a clue to what to do? I shall definitely have to rewatch this one!

[Nyder]

I thought that as well Andrew - it was the image of a bird pecking away that gave him the idea of bashing the azbantium (that's not a euphemism Mr Wallis!!)

What I can't work out is - the first time he tried Door 12 he couldn't get in. How did he get in the next time?


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[duncan]

Didn't the building rotate making the room accessible?

[Dirk Gently]

Yes, the building had to move so there wasn't a wall behind the door.

As for the Bird password; I thought that when the Doctor was in the teleport room he found the skull, saw the word Bird & said it. Then a door opened allowing the Doctor access to the top of the Tower where the skull is then dropped in to the ocean.

[Alex]

Absolutely loved it, 9/10 from me. Only the "I am in 12" bit slightly confused, but I'm sure Moffat will come up with some reason / excuse in the future.

[Si Hunt]

Yes, the thing is the first time WE saw him arrive wasn't the first time he'd arrived. We obviously picked up the story on the 200th time or whatever, judging from the amount of skulls.

Si.

[Philipnet]

That does beg the questions:
* Who's clothes are they?
* Who wrote: I'm in 12
must be answered with: They are part of the castle, because all the rooms reset themselves after a while.


Except room 12 with the azbantium in it - as it's creator must have assumed that the doctor would never get there.

Or some other silly excuse in order to give the story an ending

[Darren]

5 out 10

Not really sure what to make of it. The Doctor was inside his Confession Dial? Is he 2 billion years in the future now or was that a closed time thing in the dial? Certainly stylish and Capaldi was excellent, but not one to stand up to repeat viewings, I think. Became quite dull towards the end.
Capaldi is the 12th Doctor (regen 13). Did he put himself there?

Who is regenerating in the extraction chamber?

[Antony Cox]

Dull, and if it weren't for the fact that it sets up the series finale, otherwise pointless. 1/10

I agree entirely. That was 45 minutes of my life wasted.

[Stuart Wallis]

It's also occurred to me; we never see the Doctor take anything out of his drying clothing - surely it would have occurred to him to see if there was anything potenially useful in his pockets, however wet. Yet the sonic glasses appear later on.

[Andrew Curnow]

He may have done it while dressing.

[Stuart Wallis]

I hope so, there's enough potential cockups in the episode as there is...

[egdcltd]

Of course, this does mean that the Doctor is now dead. What is left is only a copy.

Hmm, maybe he isn't just a copy. There's a point where he says, after he's realised what's happening, that "I can remember it all. I can remember every time." Maybe, once he reaches the point of revelation, he remembers all the previous attempts.

[Perry Vale]

I've always interpreted that as the restoration of the timeline meant the Doctor had never actually died in the first place.

No, the timeline is different. At the start, Jackie says that Pete died alone, at the end (in the new timeline) she says that a young girl (Rose) sat with him as he died. The Tardis is also in a completely different location to where it had originally been.

[Andrew Curnow]

I watched it for a second time this morning, and contrary to my expectations enjoyed it even more.

I see what Tim meant about 'BIRD' being a password, because the tower door opens just after - but I take it to be more that the tower door has now opened because he's back in that room at last. There's a line shortly after about "following a line of breadcrumbs" - given that the whole place is fully automated with the intention to force the truth about the hybrid from the Doctor then it must have been planned around him encountering & confessing to 'the veiled thing' a few times - giving time for him to work out the trick of escaping death, and to get various other 'minor' confessions of his chest. The plan, presumably, is to get all that out the way before he can then find room 12, be tantalised with 'HOME' but at the same time be shown that it is beyond an impenetrable barrier with no way out... other than to tell the final truth.

Also, as regards the resetting, my theory is that the 'autosystem' logs the 'proper' state of the castle as being how it is when the Doctor arrives... meaning that each time he arrives the 'proper' state of the castle is a skull on the floor, a word written in the dust, and the diamond wall with however much he'd bashed out of it so far. In other words, it hasn't reset yet from the smashing, and then 'locks in' the current state of things each time the Doctor arrives...

...mind you, that doesn't quite explain why the blood trail disappears so promptly, nor why the dirty shovel is still there. Ah well!!

The other thought that struck me is that I can certainly see why some people would hate this - in a sense we know it's going to be 55 minutes waiting for him to find the way out, and you could certainly argue that as pure padding. For me, though, it's a brilliant summation of the Doctor - he's in an impossible situation, horrifying, baffling, inescapable, it brings him to a moment of absolute despair.... but then he rallies, and brilliantly turns his opponent's creation against him. He USES the fact that the creature will kill him and USES the reset feature of the castle, and turns them against his foe. Now that, surely, is the Doctor in a nutshell isn't it - not "my gun is bigger than yours" but "I think you'll find your gun is now pointing in your direction".

Anyway, back to speculation about the hybrid then - so, it's a mix of two warrior races, and we're on Gallifrey, and it's the last story of the season. Surely it's obvious, it's the Vardans and the Sontarans again!!!

[egdcltd]

No, the timeline is different. At the start, Jackie says that Pete died alone, at the end (in the new timeline) she says that a young girl (Rose) sat with him as he died. The Tardis is also in a completely different location to where it had originally been.

It's a long time since I last saw that episode now - I'll have to watch it again.

[The456]

I'm just not feeling Capaldi at all as the Doctor. He's no Pertwee. It's all gone a bit sour for me.

[Martin Curnow]

I did like this episode and have rewatched the last 10 minutes or so - 7,000, 12,000, one million, 2 billion etc - several times (Murray Gold's music for this is a superb piece) and Capaldi was very good in my opinion.

I don't get the title though - Heaven Sent? The Ordeal or the Castle of Nightmares may have been better descriptions.